Fox News is all over it.
It’s even cropped up on my comment threads.
Antarctica is cold, so no global warming.
It’s a favorite ploy of denialists to crib a story from NASA or other legit group, distort it, and pretend it says what it does not.
It is all part of their desperate attempt to steal what they do not have – credibilty.
In this case, quoting National Snow and Ice Data Center Lead Scientist, Ted Scambos, about a new measured temp at the south pole.
I did not speak to Dr. Scambos at AGU this year, although I saw him briefly in the press room – but I did interview him in 2012 – above. In it, he gives a wider overview of north and south polar changes. That is, ice loss, warming temperatures, and more rapid sea level rise.
Baby, it’s cold outside. But if you think this is bad, picture spending your summer months in Antarctica: a new data set shows that the South Pole set a world record for low temperature in 2010, and came within fractions of a degree of the same temperature this July.
According to new NASA satellite data, the mercury dipped to -135.8 degrees Fahrenheit in August 2010, and -135.3 degrees on July 31, 2013.
Researchers called it “soul-crushing” cold. It’s so cold that most of the time researchers actually need to breathe through a snorkel that brings air into the coat through a sleeve and warms it up “so you don’t inhale by accident” the cold air, said ice scientist Ted Scambos, of the National Snow and Ice Data Center.
–While the reading is interesting, it doesn’t mean much in the grand scheme, said Waleed Abdalati, an ice scientist at the University of Colorado and NASA’s former chief scientist.
Both Abdalati, who wasn’t part of the measurement team, and Scambos said this is likely an unusual random reading in a place that hasn’t been measured much before and could have been colder or hotter in the past and we wouldn’t know.
“It does speak to the range of conditions on this Earth, some of which we haven’t been able to observe,” Abdalati said.
One of you omniscient posters on this thread needs to provide me with the experiment that shows that CO2 does what some maintain as far as being the driver of the earth’s climate. You could also try to provide the mathematical derivation of CO2 forcing.
I do not need to be reminded of Tyndall’s 1859 lab experiments that do not prove that humanity’s CO2 emissions are warming the planet. The historically proven Roman Warm period, the Medieval Warm period and the Little Ice Age all occurred with out any human causation, unless you can figure out a reason that most do not realize. In the real world, other factors can influence and outweigh those lab findings and that is why these experiment must deal with the real world and not computer models that do not have the ability to factor in all of the variables that effect the earth’s climate. If they can not provide a verifiable experiment regarding the present amount of CO2 in the atmosphere and how it effects the climate and creates their anthropogenic global warming, then believing that it does so is akin to believing that Santa Clause is real and you need to be good to get something left under the tree.
It is a fact that real scientist devise experiments to either prove or disprove their hypotheses and welcome people to try to disprove them so that they can move on. They sure do not say that the science is settled and the argument is over because there are REAL scientist out there doing REAL scientific work that are not blinded by some agenda that they support so that they can get more “research” money or money to fund a boondoggle renewable energy scheme that will never work.
“The sun, with all those planets revolving around it and dependent on it, can still ripen a bunch of grapes as if it had nothing else in the universe to do.”
Galileo Galilei
Forget that. First you have to prove you have the ability to think. Then you have to prove you understand concepts like average and global. Come back when you pass those tests. Otherwise it might be ” inability to not understand “
Like many of us who are trying to keep civilization from being destroyed before the time of our grandchildren, I swing between occasional bouts of understanding the psychopathology of your disease and longer stretches of understanding the horrific consequences to the biosphere if you continue what you’re doing. Sometimes I think the biggest challenge in all this, for those who are aware, is the struggle to reconcile those 2 without resorting to the rage and hatred exhibited daily by people like you.
Merry whatever, and happy whosamajig.
Christopher, my deepest apologies; that was meant as a reply to John Douglass Swallow. I’m not sure what happened.
Understood. And a Merry Christmas to all.
J4zonian; When I read your, I’m sure, heart felt post, these quotes came to mind :
“The desire to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it” — H L Mencken
“We’ve got to ride this global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic and environmental policy.” – Timothy Wirth, President of the UN Foundation
“No matter if the science of global warming is all phony… climate change provides the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world.” – Christine Stewart, former Canadian Minister of the Environment
By the way, if you are sincere and dedicated to your position, why don’t you use your real name instead of something like j4zonian?
I think you should reconsider the quote attributed to Christine Stewart unless you can provide an original source.
The best I’ve been able to find is an old article from Junkscience that purports to be a copy of a Boxing Day ’98 column from Canada’s Financial Post written by Terrence Corcoran.
I notice that your “quote” contains an ellipsis, which is a bit of a red flag.
If we assume the Junkscience post is an unaltered copy of the original article, Christine Stewart allegedly said the following:
1) ‘as minister of the environment, I am very worried about global warming
2) ‘No matter if the science is all phony,’ she said, ‘there are collateral environmental benefits.’
3) ‘Climate change [provides] the greatest chance to bring about justice and equality in the world.’
So at best your quote is a conflation of 2 separate statements with one significant phrase removed.
Because clueless, amoral, reprehensible lying psychopathic psychotics like you are willing to say and perhaps do anything to try to delay rational action to avoid catastrophic global warming. I have no interest in exposing myself to the potential for violence perfectly consistent with the moral bankruptcy shown by the denying delayalists posting here and elsewhere on the net.
Quote away, “John”. It proves nothing. The science does, and the science proves you not only wrong but either monumentally stupid, completely insane or criminal. Actually, in this case it’s almost impossible to be one without being all 3. Why are you risking global destruction for the sake of oil and coal profits, ideology and above all, emotional discomfort?
Don’t BS us, S-Head. Those quotes did NOT “come to mind”—you looked them up in your handy “Stupid and Irrelevant Things for Trolls and Deniers to Say” manual. The only quotes from you that I will believe “came to mind” are these—-“DUH”, from King Dube, and “Double DUH”, also from The Dube.
And knock off the crap about “using your real name”—-You didn’t, HuaHin.
j4zonian: I hope that you get help before you hurt someone because you display the same paranoid tendencies that these people below displayed and the outcome of their actions were horrible.
Karl Pierson, an 18-year-old student at Arapahoe High School
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_24721367/arapahoe-high-gunman-held-strong-political-beliefs-classmAtes
Jared Loughner, Alleged Shooter in Gabrielle Giffords Attack, Described by Classmate as “Left-Wing Pothead” http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/01/jared_loughner_alleged_shooter.php#
The Sandy Hook gunman Adam Lanza.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2250608/Adam-Lanzas-classmate-reveals-Sandy-Hook-gunman-online-devil-worshiping-page.html
James E. Holmes fits the profile of a 20 something Black Bloc terrrorist and that his shooting up of the Aurora Co movie theater was payback for the Batman movie slaming the OWS.”
http://www.pibillwarner.com/2012/07/occupy-black-bloc-member-james-holmes.html
More signs point to James E. Holmes having been Occupy ‘Black Bloc’ member
http://www.examiner.com/article/more-signs-point-to-james-e-holmes-having-been-occupy-black-bloc-member
So Inane-Head is now a criminal psychologist and profiler who feels qualified to make such statements as this? Is there ANY field of human endeavor that he is NOT qualified to “expertly” comment on?
He is truly a legend in his own mind—-something I have accused O-Log and E-Pot of, but Poop-Head far surpasses their self-delusion.
I’m curious about Swallow’s qualifications to say what psychological symptoms anyone exhibited before their violent acts. I suspect he or she has absolutely no qualifications to make the comparison s/he did, making it simply an uneducated shotgun attempt at offensive insults.
5 million people a year die from the effects of climate catastrophe–the biggest cause of death in the world. It continues to get worse. Soon it’s very likely to kill billions. People like John Douglass Swallow want us to ignore that and let it get worse. S/he’s offensive in many ways, apparently. S/he should top what s/he’s doing now and s/he may be forgiven by future generations.
If you haven’t figured out by now who are the people who should be asked, i.e. real climatologists, you’re dumber than you post.
And FYI, the Roman and Medieval were not GLOBAL – and the Little Ice Age had strong volcanism as a contributing factor.
“And FYI, the Roman and Medieval were not GLOBAL – and the Little Ice Age had strong volcanism as a contributing factor.” This is a strange comment to make after you accuse me of not having a global view regarding the Dec. weather on earth that is cold all over the northern hemisphere. I am said to be only focusing on a small area when I use the longest existing temperature record in the world as a reference, Hadley Centre Central England Temperature (HadCET) dataset, and now you come up with nonsense like this. You can’t have it both ways, even in your delusional world of AGW.
I offer up two sources for what follows in case you do not trust Harvard’s views.
“Our interpretation, based on ikaite isotopes, provides additional qualitative evidence that both the Medieval Warm Period and Little Ice Age were extended to the Southern Ocean and the Antarctic Peninsula.”
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2011AGUFMPP51A1819L
“This ikaite record qualitatively supports that both the Medieval Warm Period and Little Ice Age extended to the Antarctic Peninsula.”
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0012821X12000659
“The Norse arrived in Greenland 1,000 years ago and became very well established,” says Schweger, describing the Viking farms and settlements that crowded the southeast and southwest coasts of Greenland for almost 400 years.
“The Greenland settlements were the most distant of all European medieval sites in the world,” said Schweger. “Then the Norse disappear, and the question has always been: what happened?”
http://www.folio.ualberta.ca/38/16/03.html
Wait MorinMoss, there is even more evidence for you to dance around about the Vikings and their habitation of the north 1,000 years ago:
“Evidence of Viking Outpost Found in Canada
Sharpeners may be smoking guns in quest for New World’s second Viking site.
For the past 50 years—since the discovery of a thousand-year-old Viking way station in Newfoundland—archaeologists and amateur historians have combed North America’s east coast searching for traces of Viking visitors.
Archaeologists have long known that Viking seafarers set sail for the New World around A.D. 1000. A popular Icelandic saga tells of the exploits of Leif Eriksson, a Viking chieftain from Greenland who sailed westward to seek his fortune. According to the saga, Eriksson stopped long enough on Baffin Island to walk the coast—named Helluland, an Old Norse word meaning “stone-slab land”—before heading south to a place he called Vinland.”
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/10/121019-viking-outpost-second-new-canada-science-sutherlan
Ikaite record distortion:
http://climatecrocks.com/2012/03/28/the-daily-mail-major-fail-scientist-sets-record-straight-on-medieval-warming-research/
Greenland, MWP distortions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G80mIbF5yEg
I want to underline, if I haven’t already, that Swallow is not some sock puppet account that I’m posting from
to make climate deniers look slow witted.
he really is setting this up for me.
Thank you, Swallow!
But don’t you feel a bit bad about it all? It’s like taking candy from a baby, beating up on old ladies, etc.
I know, I’m bad.
But seriously, the nice thing about swallow is that he never learns anything,
so he’s like a clean slate every post.
greenman3610 : I can almost feel sorry for you and tell how hurt you must be that no one seemed to pay much attention to your big exposé regarding Ikaite. One can only wonder that if the reports on it in various respected science journals did not immediately take the results of their finds down upon learning of your findings is strange, if anyone felt that there was any fraud or an attempt being made to distort the truth. Maybe someday you might get up to speed on this issue; but, it will not be today.
This is what I have found:
SAO/NASA ADS Physics Abstract Service
Title:
An ikaite record of late Holocene climate at the Antarctic Peninsula
(same authors)
Keywords:
[0726] CRYOSPHERE / Ice sheets, [1041] GEOCHEMISTRY / Stable isotope geochemistry, [1051] GEOCHEMISTRY / Sedimentary geochemistry, [4901] PALEOCEANOGRAPHY / Abrupt/rapid climate change
“Our interpretation, based on ikaite isotopes, provides additional qualitative evidence that both the Medieval Warm Period and Little Ice Age were extended to the Southern Ocean and the Antarctic Peninsula.”
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2011AGUFMPP51A1819L
SAO/NASA ADS Astronomy Abstract Service
Title:
An ikaite record of late Holocene climate at the Antarctic Peninsula
(Same Authors & affiliation))
Keywords:
[0726] CRYOSPHERE / Ice sheets, [1041] GEOCHEMISTRY / Stable isotope geochemistry, [1051] GEOCHEMISTRY / Sedimentary geochemistry, [4901] PALEOCEANOGRAPHY / Abrupt/rapid climate change
Publication Date:
04/2012
Origin:
ELSEVIER
Keywords:
ikaite, hydration water, stable isotope, Holocene, Antarctic Peninsula
“This ikaite record qualitatively supports that both the Medieval Warm Period and Little Ice Age extended to the Antarctic Peninsula.”
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2012E%26PSL.325..108L
Earth and Planetary Science Letters
Volumes 325–326, 1 April 2012, Pages 108–115
An ikaite record of late Holocene climate at the Antarctic Peninsula
(Same authors & affiliations)
“This ikaite record qualitatively supports that both the Medieval Warm Period and Little Ice Age extended to the Antarctic Peninsula.”
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0012821X12000659
Alarmist try to use sea ice as a gauge for the climate and in that they have failed miserably again since the truth will as always prevail while prevaricators will always be distrusted and expunged from society, in due time.
Statement of Dr. David Deming
[…]”In 1995,I published a short paper in the academic journal Science. […]….National Public Radio. He offered to interview me, but only if I would state that the warming was due to human activity. When I refused to do so, he hung up on me.”
[…]I had another interesting experience around the time my paper in Science was published. I received an astonishing email from a major researcher in the area of climate change. He said, “We have to get rid of the Medieval Warm Period.”
The Medieval Warm Period (MWP) was a time of unusually warm weather that began around 1000 AD and persisted until a cold period known as the “Little Ice Age” took hold in the 14th century. Warmer climate brought a remarkable flowering of prosperity, knowledge, and art to Europe during the High Middle Ages.”
http://www.epw.senate.gov/hearing_statements.cfm?id=266543
“Only at the South Pole: Icebreaker also stuck — in ice — heading for stranded ship
By Michael Martinez. Holly Yan and Kevin Wang, CNN
December 28, 2013 — Updated 0239 GMT (1039 HKT)
[…]The expedition is trying to update scientific measurements taken by an Australian expedition led by Douglas Mawson that set out in 1911.”
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/12/27/world/antarctica-ship-stuck/
I do not imagine that you want to consider that Mawson left Hobart on 2 December 1911, landed at Cape Denison on Commonwealth Bay on 8 January 1912, and established the Main Base. I really doubt that Mawson’s ship could have got there if the ice was like it is now.
Peter; This appeared in Zunli Lu’s initial report and do notice the date:
Scientists use a rare mineral to correlate past climate events in Europe and Antarctica
The new study is published in the April issue of “Earth and Planetary Science Letters”
Mar 21, 2012 | Article by: Judy Holmes
“We showed that the Northern European climate events influenced climate conditions in Antarctica,” Lu says. “More importantly, we are extremely happy to figure out how to get a climate signal out of this peculiar mineral. A new proxy is always welcome when studying past climate changes.”
http://asnews.syr.edu/newsevents_2012/releases/ikaite_crystals_climate.html
Notice the date here and that would have given the anthropogenic global warming zealots wanting more federal funding time force Zunli Lu’s to change the previous statement to this kind of prevarication that people with an agenda fall for:
Syracuse University scientist seeks to set the record straight on climate research
Recent media reports misrepresent his research
Mar 28, 2012 | Article by: Judy Holmes
Zunli Lu:
“It is unfortunate that my research, “An ikaite record of late Holocene climate at the Antarctic Peninsula,” recently published in Earth and Planetary Science Letters, has been misrepresented by a number of media outlets.
http://asnews.syr.edu/newsevents_2012/releases/ikaite_crystals_climate_STATEMENT.html
The records are numerous that prove that there was a RWP, MWP & LIA. You can not allow that because you have to have the one arrow in your quiver, CO2, to try to show that there is an anthropogenic factor involved in the climate or you have nothing. What caused the last ice age to begin and end and we know it did both with out any anthropogenic factor involved?
The Broad View of Holocene Climate from the Swedish Scandes
Volume 16, Number 50: 11 December 2013
http://www.co2science.org/articles/V16/N50/EDIT.php
China’s 2,000 Year Temperature History
Filed under: Paleo/Proxy, Temperature History —
[…]“The analysis also indicates that the warming during the 10–14th centuries in some regions might be comparable in magnitude to the warming of the last few decades of the 20th century.”
[…]”Considering the past 2000 years, the winter half-year temperature series indicate that the three warm peaks (690s–710s, 1080s–1100s and 1230s–1250s), have comparable high temperatures to the last decades of the 20th century.”
http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index.php/2010/06/30/china%e2%80%99s-2000-year-temperature-history/
right. conspiracy theory noted.
Peter; You need to get with the University of Alberta and try to set them straight on your bogus hypotheses about Greenland and the “brief time” it was settled by Vikings “The Norse arrived in Greenland 1,000 years ago and became very well established,” says Schweger, describing the Viking farms and settlements that crowded the southeast and southwest coasts of Greenland for almost 400 years. (400 years is obviously longer than the time the US has been in existence)
http://www.folio.ualberta.ca/38/16/03.html
The 124 year old National Geographic also do not seem to be following your story line. Try to set them straight if you believe your own nonsenses.
“Evidence of Viking Outpost Found in Canada
…..since the discovery of a thousand-year-old Viking way station in Newfoundland…….
Archaeologists have long known that Viking seafarers set sail for the New World around A.D. 1000. A popular Icelandic saga tells of the exploits of Leif Eriksson, a Viking chieftain…….. According to the saga, Eriksson stopped long enough on Baffin Island to walk the coast—named Helluland, an Old Norse word meaning “stone-slab land”—before heading south to a place he called Vinland.”
Did your hero, Richard Alley, slip up when he mentioned the Romans making lead in Northern Europe which occurred during Roman Warm Period. Physical and historical facts are damn hard to get around to try to maintain a flimsy hypotheses that if it had validity folks would not have to rely on distorting the facts to try to maintain.
Here’s a more interesting question – why did they abandon North America and forgot it even existed?
I turn on the computer this A.M. hoping to find some intelligent commentary on Crock and what do I find? More absolutely mindless horsepucky from S-Head.
He again demonstrates to us that he is time-challenged in addition to his retarded state of understanding of “global-local” by talking about Vikings, “400 years”, and the age of the U.S. All of that is utterly irrelevant nonsense, S-Head.
Why don’t you take a day off (or a week)? Maybe those of us that have lost IQ points trying to decipher your crap can gain some of them back (and maybe the bad smell you leave in the air will dissipate).
“Whatever can be going on? (I get so confused sometimes, since I’m a dumb old guy).” Even he can get something right, once in awhile. I hope that what follows gives him a represented view of what has occurred in the world in December of 2013, but somehow I doubt that he will understand, too many places, too far apart for someone who lives in such a small world.
“Fort Peck Reservoir completely frozen”
According to Daggett, the following are dates of complete ice cover at Fort Peck prior to Christmas: Nov. 29, 1955; Dec. 10, 1983; Dec. 13, 1985; Dec. 19, 1961; Dec. 21, 1951 and 2000; Dec. 23, 1945 and 1996; and Dec. 24, 1964 and 2008.
[…]
“It is really a rare occasion for Fort Peck to freeze completely over prior to Christmas at lake elevations at or above its current level,” Daggett wrote in an email. “The last time it did was Dec. 21, 2000.”
http://billingsgazette.com/lifestyles/recreation/fort-peck-reservoir-completely-frozen/article_5b2cf8f7-5359-5e31-836d-154002d25156.html
————————–
xxxxxx my policy on lengthy posts has been made very clear — Peter
inability to understand the difference between local extremes and well documented, unequivocal ocean and planetary warming is common among the uninformed. You continue to demonstrate this particular blind spot, so thanks for that – however, one or two clear demonstrations per post is enough. we get it.
LOL S-Head is back with “a represented (sic) view of what has occurred in the world in December of 2013”, and he talks ONLY about the ice on the Fort Peck reservoir? I will not point out the logic fail about global-local that he has again suffered, since all of the rest of us here have seen it before (and S-Head never will).
BTW, my brother who lives in the North Woods of Wisconsin says it’s cold enough there to freeze the balls off a brass Hodag, and that’s cold!
(google Hodag and you will see how tough those critters are)
We will see if you, Peter Sinclair, are honest enough to allow me to post the full December winter events for people like old dumb one, or what ever, can understand that I was dealing with the world and not just MT.
“Thai government declares disaster zones as people are caught up in plummeting winter temperatures… of 15C
17:20 GMT, 17 December 2013
“Frost has also been seen for the third time this year on top of Thailand’s tallest mountain peak Doi Inthanon in Chiang Mai, a province where six districts have so far been declared as disaster zones.
According to the Changrai Times the frost temperature was recorded at -1.4 degrees Celsius, while the overall temperature has dropped sharply by 6-8C, with temperature in downtown Chiang Mai province recorded at 14.3C.
During a weekly cabinet meeting today, members were briefed on plummeting temperatures in Thailand’s upper parts and the villagers’ lack of warm clothes and blankets.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2525366/Thai-government-declares-disaster-zones-people-caught-low-winter-temperatures.html
The cold season in the North will stretch into mid-February.
18 Dec 2013
Ms Pornnapha said the weather this year was colder than last year.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/385486/cold-spell-ahead-for-northern-region
Tropics Go Wintery! … Northern Thailand Declared Cold Disaster Zone … Snow In Vietnam … In Turkey “Animals Literally Freeze Where They Stand”!
http://notrickszone.com/2013/12/19/tropics-go-wintery-northern-thailand-declared-cold-disaster-zone-in-turkey-animals-literally-freeze-where-they-stand-middle-east-shivers/
Shouldn’t you start your own blog like Omnologos did?
Or go beg Willard Watts for guest posting privileges.
He continually boasts about how much more traffic he gets compared to other climate blogs so it would be a more effective strategy for you.
I seem to be helping Peter out here because I doubt that he generally gets this many post to any topic he chooses to carry on about with no valid information.
When you get invited to a Greenland expedition with actual climate researchers and have earned as much praise from scientists on the AGW side and as much vitriol from the deniers, including Willard Watts himself – or vice versa, given your bias – then perhaps you can offer a helping hand.
Until then, you’re no more than an irritant.
In the beginning of this eye opening exchange I offered up this:
“I find these FACTS to be of great interest considering how this desire of the alarmist to purport that the earth is burning up and has a bad fever. If that is true, then why do these temperatures, some of which were set 131 years ago, still stand?”
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001375.html
This link shows the same temperatures except for what I present below:
http://www.worldfactsandfigures.com/weather_extremes.php
Since then another question has come to mind: Why didn’t those on here just answer my question and forget the name calling and attempts to slander some one for asking this, what appears to be, a straight forward and easy for anyone with a brain to understand, question? If some one has trouble with the information, then take it up with the source and call them names and imply that they are stupid for coming up with information that those on here are not able to agree with. A logical and thinking person would naturally assume that for these temperatures to be broken would require similar climatic conditions to be presented as were present at the time the records were made; but, it seems that in the alarmist world on fire, that is not happening and hasn’t happened since 10 July, 1913.
If you have a problem with this information then I suggest you write to these people and call them names and tell them how stupid they are and see how far you get.
“World Meteorological Organization Assessment of the Purported World Record 58°C Temperature Extreme at El Azizia, Libya (13 September 1922)
The WMO assessment is that the highest recorded surface temperature of 56.7°C (134°F) was measured on 10 July 1913 at Greenland Ranch (Death Valley), California.”
Final Form: July 11, 2012
http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/BAMS-D-12-00093.1?af=R&&
This is the rest of the events of December, 2013 for the one that lives up to his name to look into and bring up the longest temperature record in the world HadCET) dataset that I assume he has never heard of.
“2013: Middle East experiences worst snow storm since 1953.
13 Dec 2013
‘Historic’ snow storms spread havoc and misery across the Middle East
The worst snow storms since 1953 have caused chaos in Israel and the Palestinian territories and exacerbated an already severe crisis among Syrian refugees”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/10516498/Historic-snow-storms-spread-havoc-and-misery-across-the-Middle-East.html
“Snow closes roads in Israel, is a source of wonder in Egypt”
December 13, 2013
http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-snow-israel-egypt-20131213,0,1691393.story#ixzz2nXhTlPFS
“Snow falls in Vietnam
Unusual weather strikes east Asia.
Last updated: 16 Dec 2013 09:39
Snow has fallen in Northern Vietnam for the first time in many years.
The snow caused a five-hour traffic jam as people drove into the mountainous provinces of Lao Cai and Ha Giang to see the wintry flurries.”
http://www.aljazeera.com/weather/2013/12/snow-falls-vietnam-20131216924218746.html
Press Room 9 December 2013 Press Release: Landsat 8 helps unveil the coldest place on Earth
Scientists recently recorded the lowest temperatures on Earth at a desolate and remote ice plateau in East Antarctica, trumping a record set in 1983 and uncovering a new puzzle about the ice-covered continent.
“Ted Scambos, lead scientist at the National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC), and his team found temperatures from −92 to −94 degrees Celsius (−134 to −137 degrees Fahrenheit) in a 1,000-kilometer long swath on the highest section of the East Antarctic ice divide.
“I’ve never been in conditions that cold and I hope I never am,” Scambos said. “I am told that every breath is painful and you have to be extremely careful not to freeze part of your throat or lungs when inhaling.”
http://nsidc.org/news/press/2013_ColdestPlace_PR.html
Please add the record drought in California to your compendium of weather events. Over 90% of the state since May and now approaching 95% or about 400,000 sq km.
And that’s just CA – check out the rest of the Southwest as of Dec 24th.
http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/
If there’s no weather relief by the spring, it could be another very bad wildfire season.
MorinMoss: Why is it that you alarmist can never look beyond what is occurring now? Look at the past & you will always find that something that is happening now is insignificant, at the present time, unless it overshadows in time what happened in the decade of 1930-1940.
“Over the 11-year span from 1930-1940, a large part of the region saw 15% to 25% less precipitation than normal. This is very significant to see such a large deficit over such a long period of time. […]Deficits like this are the equivalent of missing three entire years of expected precipitation in one decade.”
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/ama/?n=dust_bowl_verses_today
“Severe drought in 1934 covered 80% of the country, compared with 25% in 2011
In June, 1934 the entire country had triple digit heat. We didn’t come anywhere close to that this summer.”
http://docs.lib.noaa.gov/rescue/mwr/062/mwr-062-06-0212.pdf
What do you mean? As bad of a fire season as in 1938.
http://www.nifc.gov/fireInfo/nfn.htm
The number of US fires this year is at a record low, and burn area is second lowest at 62% of normal. There were six times as many fires in 1938.
The Queenslander (Brisbane, Qld. : 1866 – 1939)Wednesday 1 February 1939
A FOREST fire every three minutes was last year’s count in the United States, according to summaries compiled by the Forest Service, U.S. Department of Agriculture. The total for the year was 185,000.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/18910142?searchTerm=forest%20fire&searchLimits=
Some that are on here that believe the way to make a point when they have none to make, they need to resort to name calling to fully show their ignorance, and that they do. I became involved in another discussion regarding one of Peter’s videos at the Yale Climate Forum and there was no name calling that took place there.
‘Frozen Dirt’ and Methane … ‘We Cannot Go There’
— February 28, 2013
“This is Not Cool” video produced by Peter Sinclair for The Yale Forum on Climate Change & The Media.
“I watched this inspiring video and was very impressed with Charles Miller who has the astounding ability to see [01:26] and smell methane and carbon dioxide, both of which are odorless and invisible. This special ability must come from being employed by NASA. The rest of the conjecture was, as usual, not backed up with any facts and in any endeavor, facts are important.”
http://www.yaleclimatemediaforum.org/2013/02/video-on-frozen-dirt-and-methane-we-cannot-go-there/#comment-416054
S-Head needs to learn the difference between “name-calling” and what we might describe as “factual description based on rational analysis of observed writings and behavior”. That’s what we all do with S-Head’s comments.
For example, we all may recall the extended rant in which S-Head called me many “ugly” names (including “dung”). After reading it, I called him “a rather ‘ugly’ human being” (“ugly” referring to his thought processes, although he’s probably not much to look at, either). To summarize for S-head (everyone else understands)
S-Head = name-caller.
D.O.G. and others on Crock = tellers of undeniable truths, NOT name-callers.
Since this is far less confusing than the stupefyingly complex problem of “global versus local”, S-Head may understand. Any bets?
(And I don’t like whiners, S-Head—keep it up and I WILL start to pick on you)
remember.
nobody expects that we will convince Swallow.
His issues are rooted in faulty toilet training, and are the subject for therapy, not persuasive argument.
However, it is important to know that people like this make up the core of the Fox News audience, and, likely as not, will attempt to bluster their way thru water cooler conversations using similar bonehead nonsense.(just watch “The Five” for 30 seconds..)
It is our task, instead, to persuade the persuadable, reasonable onlooker, who may otherwise be confused by the dead certainty that comes so readily to fools.
This is as good a place as any to practice. Doesn’t look like he’s going to get tired, or even adjust his claim, so it makes for easier calibration.
Yes, he is a classic hard-core Fauxie—-A WIFI (Willfully Ignorant Functional Illiterate)—I know many, and some of them no longer speak to me. The good news is, that although Faux has the largest audience at present, they ARE shrinking a bit, and they are losing the younger demographics in huge numbers. So all we have to do is wait, and the Fauxies will become extinct—hope I live long enough to see it.
Peter; Why are you so afraid to post my information about the December 2013 weather world wide? How can it be that something about the actual weather world wide can be so threatening to you?
You do not want your followers to know about the first snow in Cairo in 112 years or about Middle East experiencing worst snow storm since 1953 or the first snow in Vietnam in who knows how many years. I know for a fact because I’ve been to Doi Ang Khang. They experienced their first frost there in Nov. of 2006 and now it is freezing nightly there right now. It appears the US is also getting a good taste of the winter weather that your kind thinks is done with on an earth with a fever, at least that is what you are wanting people to believe. You certainly do not want to deal with the fact that in January of this year the average temperature in northeast China dipped to -15.3 degrees C (4.5 degrees F), the coldest in 43 years, and dropped to a 42-year low of -7.4 degrees C (18.7 degrees F) in northern China. In some areas; northeastern China, eastern Inner Mongolia, and north part of far western Xinjiang province the low has hit -40 degrees C. It appears that none of this fits you narrative; therefore, you will dishonestly not show the post and still think that you are using “science”.
December isn’t over yet and NOAA will post a summary in early January.
I’ve already provided the link to the November 2013 one but have yet to see your response. Does it depart too dramatically from your entrenched narrative?
I see that your snippets in the post above about December’s weather includes only unusual cold events.
Are you Fair & Balanced enough to provide info about warm events as well such as the
extreme warmth in California, the weeks of unusually high temps in Siberia and the record warm weather in New York & Philly?
weather whiplash is an emerging feature of climate change. see today’s post.
Richard Phillips Feynman was an American theoretical physicist known for his work in the path integral formulation of quantum mechanics, the theory of quantum electrodynamics & received the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1965. During his lifetime, Feynman became one of the best-known scientists in the world. In a 1999 poll of 130 leading physicists worldwide by the British journal Physics World he was ranked as one of the ten greatest physicists of all time.
“Serious people believe that it {AGW} is an issue. There’s a lot of promotion and hype, but that doesn’t mean that, underneath it all, there isn’t a problem. No one’s shown that it’s not an issue. The hardest part for someone trying to understand the issue from first principles is locating a clear A-to-B exposition of how doubled CO2 produces a problem and I’m afraid that no one’s been able to give such a reference to me – the excuse is that such an exposition is too “routine” for climate scientists. That’s the first attitude than has to change.”
Richard P. Feynman
This extraordinary man must have known people like dumboldguy when he said this about someone who never presents facts but only pointless, inane gibberish:
“Ordinary fools are all right; you can talk to them, and try to help them out. But pompous fools-guys who are fools and are covering it all over and impressing people as to how wonderful they are with all this hocus pocus-THAT, I CANNOT STAND! An ordinary fool isn’t a faker; an honest fool is all right. But a dishonest fool is terrible!”
― Richard P. Feynman
Your logical fallacy is
Feynman was an extraordinary gifted intellect – but he’s not the only smart guy ever and…..I’m going to say this slowly…… he…never….studied….climate…science…
And he may well have not taken his own advice, which is typical for very smart guys.
By that I mean he likely fooled himself into thinking that he knew more about a subject he had little knowledge of versus a great many more lesser minds who were actively developing the science.
About 30 yrs ago, a bunch of other very smart guys were once appointed by a skeptical president to overturn the conclusions of climate scientists.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JASON_(advisory_group)
Here’s what they concluded
“I’m going to say this slowly…… he…never….studied….climate…science…’ Read what I present below as slowly as you want to and maybe you can get an idea of what people that under stood things thought. What do you think the Catholic Church was saying when they put Galileo on trial for believing in the Copernican theory? They were saying that the earth is the center of the universe and do not say anything differently because they were the experts.
“My dear Kepler, what would you say of the learned here, who, replete with the pertinacity of the asp, have steadfastly refused to cast a glance through the telescope? What shall we make of this? Shall we laugh, or shall we cry?”
–Letter from Galileo Galilei to Johannes Kepler (One can imagine that in this day and age, it would be said that there are those that have no proof whatsoever that CO2 does what they desperately want to believe it does but still they will not look at the obvious).
“Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of the truth” Albert Einstein
“In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual.”
Galileo Galile
Here are some more quotes for you to look up.
“We need to get some broad based support, to capture the public’s imagination… So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements and make little mention of any doubts… Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest.” – Stephen Schneider, Stanford Professor of Climatology, lead author of many IPCC reports
“Unless we announce disasters no one will listen.” – Sir John Houghton, first chairman of IPCC
“It doesn’t matter what is true, it only matters what people believe is true.” – Paul Watson, co-founder of Greenpeace
“No matter if the science of global warming is all phony… climate change provides the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world.”
– Christine Stewart,
fmr Canadian Minister of the Environment
http://canadiantruths.wordpress.com/tag/christine-stewart/
Poop-Head is incorrigible. He is now quoting Galileo and Kepler. Perhaps we will hear from Plato, Socrates, Sun Yat-sen, or Chairman Mao next. Anything to distract us and avoid dealing with the here-and-now of AGW.
“I’m going to say this slowly…… he…never….studied….climate…science…” I know that you will never be able to connect the dots but…..this does deal with something other than a topic that you know nothing about besides anthropogenic global warming, but have you never considered that people are able to lean about something beyond the confines of a formal setting?
As far as education goes and it is for sure an important part of any civilized countries make up; but, one needs to consider that Thomas A. Edison held 1095 patents, making him one of the most prolific inventors ever, and he had three months of formal education. Was he a scientist? Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard during his freshman year & went on to do some pretty amazing things. Steven Jobs also dropped out of university during his freshman year. It is no theory or hypotheses that both Jobs and Gates went on to do some amazing things regarding computer science. I wonder if they had been exposed to some one like you while in college, what would have been the outcome of that, had they not dropped out when they did?
It is obvious that you, among others, missed the main point I was making about what this amazing man thought, imagine that!
“This extraordinary man must have known people like dumboldguy when he said this about someone who never presents facts but only pointless, inane gibberish:
“Ordinary fools are all right; you can talk to them, and try to help them out. But pompous fools-guys who are fools and are covering it all over and impressing people as to how wonderful they are with all this hocus pocus-THAT, I CANNOT STAND! An ordinary fool isn’t a faker; an honest fool is all right. But a dishonest fool is terrible!”
― Richard P. Feynman
S-Head asks …”but have you never considered that people are able to learn about something beyond the confines of a formal setting?”, and mentions THREE people (out of a world population of 7 billion) to illustrate his “point”. I ‘d bet that we could find three pigs that whistle if we looked at 7 billion of them. Just as S-head can’t deal with global versus local, he can’t seem to handle specific cases versus broad generalizations
S-Head then builds on his faulty premise and failed logic to once again attack those of us who point out to him what an idiot he is. To paraphrase S-Head,
“It is obvious that S-Head is the only one on Crock who doesn’t understand that he has no point to make, that he is merely stealing Feynman’s thoughts and misusing them.”
Inane gibberish, indeed. I think I will rename S-Head “Inane-Head”, especially since he hasn’t caught the not-so-subtle use of S-Head (hint-hint, S-Head—-The S stands for a four letter word that begins with S but doesn’t thyme with “poop”)
Gates and Jobs were getting their hands dirty in their chosen field from an early age, the former writing BASIC interpreters with Paul Allen, the latter with the Chaos Computer club and designing homebrew machines with Wozniak.
Edison had lots of accomplished scientists & engineers working for him, including Nikola Tesla so it’s not as if he amassed those patents all by himself.
The work of climate scientists is among the most scrutinized in human history and even the JASONs, who started from scratch in their investigation of the impact of CO2 / GHGs came to the same conclusions
But I’m actually glad you dug up that Feynman quote because that’s how many of us ( and actual researchers who freeze their butts off working in the Arctic, Greenland, Antarctica, up on mountains, wherever, trying to advance our understanding ) feel about denialists & cooligans – a cackling clutch of DISHONEST FOOLS!!
As the Tony Abbott link in one of my recent replies to you said, you were making a point, but didn’t realize the point you were making.
Am I to assume, MorinMoss, that in light of your comments about Richard P. Feynman, that no one has a right to make comments about anthropogenic global warming unless they have an advanced degree in climatology, and if you look that up you will find that there are very few that possess such degrees? It would seem that many, such as Al Gore, who makes comments continually about how this trace gas, CO2, that makes up .04% of the atmosphere and constitutes 400ppm of that atmosphere and is one and one times heavier than the air it is contained in or it would not be used as a fire suppressant is responsible for the earth’s climate doing what it does with out paying any attention to the sun that makes up 99.8% of the total mass of the solar system an d saying in effect that it has nothing to do with the climate.
I, because of your comments, then have to believe that both you and Peter Sinclair both hold advanced degrees in climatology to qualify you to have the stand that you do about this unproven hypothesis regarding CO2.
ppm of CO2 with altitude and mass of CO2 in atmosphere to 8520 metres beyond which there is practically no CO2
Could this be why CO2 is used as a fire extinguisher?
http://greenparty.ca/blogs/169/2009-01-03/ppm-co2-altitude-and-mass-co2-atmosphere-8520-metres-beyond-which-there-practic
(It is strange that I happened on this above at the Green Party of Canada’s site)
Hmm, you know what, you’re right – CO2 is such an insignificant trace gas that it cannot possibly have any effect at all.
So let’s remove every molecule of it from the atmosphere. No harm, no foul, right?
I never said that Feynman had no right to comment – I said or implied that relying on the opinion of even very smart guys who are well outside their field of study is unwise and told you about a bunch of other very smart guys who were commissioned to overturn the conclusions of climate scientists but obtained the same results.
So given the choice between of the opinion of one very, very smart guy who didn’t do the work and TWO sets of very smart guys who independently obtained the same results, I have to wonder what makes you so determined to believe the former over the latter.
I also suggested that you seek actual experts – they are not difficult to find and I imagine Greenman might be able to arrange several introductions.
Yet you keep demanding that WE provide all the answers. Is it something typically Conservative to expect laymen to have better answers than experts?
No wonder the country is in such a state – everyone who truly knows what to do is either driving a cab, mixing drinks or cutting hair.
You could have checked out the wealth of info at Skeptical Science or gotten a clearer picture of the data & statiscal methods from Open Mind.
Better still, why not engage REAL climate scientists over at …wait for it….. RealClimate.org, where they would find your insights into the properties of CO2 to be most enlightening.
In fact, I think you should do that right now and let us know what feedback you receive – DumbOldGuy will be making popcorn.
I will be making popcorn in 55-gallon drum batches—-it will be quite a long show if S-head does it, and I wouldn’t want us to run out. Reserve your seats early, all, but don’t sit too close to the action—it may get messy.
S-Head gives us a link to a site run by a guy who openly states about himself
“I’ve been diagnosed with a schizoid disorder…….”. Why am I not surprised that S-Head would “discover” this person?
This person with a “schizoid disorder” then regales us with some great “science” by stating:
“There is a research group in the States that has done high altitude analytical chemistry of the atmosphere and has detected significant amounts of CO2 up there, mostly due to high altitude currents, airplane exhaust, and stochastic brownian motion….. eventually it should sink to the earth and take its place in the mass of CO2 that exists under self partial pressure according to the formulas in the spreadsheet. This may take quite some time to settle”.
That sounds so much like S-Heads prattling that one must conclude that S-Head likely suffers from a ‘schizoid disorder” as well. Sympathies.
Let’s see, Feynman died in February 1988, almost 26 years ago. And S-Head thinks that something he said way back then has much relevance today? What would Feynman have to say about AGW if he had witnessed what has gone on recently and viewed the latest evidence?
The ghost of S-Head will be chanting “1924 in Death Valley” and quoting Feynman long after the Earth has “gone Venus”.
(and wasn’t Feynman a theoretical physicist who had little training or knowledge that was useful in understanding climate science—kind of like daveburton’s Oregon Petition signers who were engineers and hard scientist in other fields?)
Dumboldguy: I was going to give this up but you are so much fun and so entertaining that I will continue on, just for the laughs that you provide. You have some trouble discrediting one of the great scientist of our time, Richard Phillips Feynmanbut, that doesn’t keep you from trying. I really do not know what happen in 1924 in Death Valley but I do know that “The WMO assessment is that the highest recorded surface temperature of 56.7°C (134°F) was measured on 10 July 1913 at Greenland Ranch (Death Valley) CA USA.”
In the 4.5 billion year long history of the earth there were many times when, in your estimation, it would have gone “gone Venus”, such as during the Jurassic when the CO2 was at 1950 ppm or even the Carboniferous when it was at 800 ppm and even you should know that this was when the coal that you hate for your soft life style was created and the mean surface temperature then was 14 C (57.2 F). The oceans did not boil away, or haven’t you noticed?
Here are some very inspiring and accomplished folks, something that you are not, that you will have a real problem calling “flat earth people” since some of them have walked on the moon while you can’t even find your right seat on a JP4 guzzling airplane with out the help of the flight attendant.
49 Former NASA Scientists Send A Letter Disputing Climate Change
http://www.businessinsider.com/nasa-scientists-dispute-climate-change-2012-4
These are some other contemporary scientists that do not share your delusional views based on no valid evidence and that qualifies you to be a member of the anthropogenic global warming cult.
“Open letter to UN Secretary-General: Current scientific knowledge does not substantiate Ban Ki-Moon assertions on weather and climate, say 125-plus scientists”
http://opinion.financialpost.com/2012/11/29/open-climate-letter-to-un-secretary-general-current-scientific-knowledge-does-not-substantiate-ban-ki-moon-assertions-on-weather-and-climate-say-125-scientists/
Even more pathetic sleight of hand than usual, Swallow. dumboldguy beat me to pointing out that Feynman died before the current massive evidence of global climate change’s truth, human cause and harm had been accrued. If he even said what you claim, he was mistaken on the topic, which was not anything he was trained in.
But since you drop the name, appeal to authority, and then move on quickly in your usual Gish Gallop to distract from your lies, (along with your pitiful self-righteous tone of indignation (Oh, please!) here’s my equally scientific, equally valid appeal to authority: Jesus Christ, on the day before the third Sabbath after the ninth day of the second month in 29, said ” Woe unto burners of coal and oil for before their feet are the burdens of global destruction laid. And woe unto those who believe their lies, and the lies of the Koch brothers, Rex Tillerson and the company he keeps, the PR firms masquerading as think tanks and the political party that is so terrified of reality it will say the most heinous things and lie the most bold, demon-possessed lies without remorse. Woe unto them that believeth the crap that cometh out of their mouths and woe unto them doing Satan’s work, and woe unto all of us if we don’t soon change the way we debate this and act on the sureness of scientific knowledge.” That of course, is the King James version. I can quote you the Good News for Modern Denialists version if you prefer.
Some of his apostles, not being so forgiving, said this: Take your idiotic nonsense and shove it up your ass’s ass, John. You are a lying psychopath and psychotic and while we don’t deserve what’s going to happen to the Earth soon, you do.
VERY well put! Of course, it will be wasted on you-know-who. He will respond with a quote from King Dubious—the ever famous “DUH” when The Dube was asked what he could do for his country.
Yeah, I’m a real laugh riot, S-Head. You, on the other hand are about as funny as repeated farts in church (after being asked to stop many times). I would never attempt to “discredit” Feynman in his field of expertise—-quantum physics and subatomic physics. He is a “giant” in his field. You are too stupid to understand what he said back then, as well as the truth of my comment that he said it 28 years ago and was not an expert in climate science.
And did I confuse my years? Death Valley was 1913? What garbage were you spewing about temperature records in 1923 or 1924 that stuck in my mind?
S-Head babbles on about “when the coal was formed” etc. Of course, he remains oblivious to the fact that coal and oil formation occurred over many millions of years and sequestered much carbon underground. Now we are pulling all that carbon our of the ground, burning it in just a few centuries (a blink of the eye), and turning it all into CO2. He hasn’t noticed.
In a classic example of his cluelessness and stupidity, he speaks to us of “very inspiring and accomplished folks” that I will have little trouble calling s “flat earth people” since that is exactly what most of them are. Walking on the moon is not as much of an accomplishment as climbing any really big mountain. S-Head could go to the moon if they stuffed him in a spacecraft and tied his hands so he couldn’t touch anything and destroy the ship. At least they let the chimps they sent into orbit push some buttons—-they wouldn’t dare take that chance with S-Head
S-Head gives us a daveburton moment with “49 Former NASA SCIENTISTS Send A Letter Disputing Climate Change”. A look at the “letter” shows that over HALF of the signers are engineers rather than “scientists”, most of the others are administrators (who likely were engineers also), several are “unknowns”, and some of the astronauts were fighter pilots. Only 3 or 4 appear to be actual “scientists”, and only one has any knowledge at all that might be a bit relevant to climate science—-a single meteorologist (who was concerned not with global warming but with whether the weather in a very LOCAL situation would be good enough to launch space missions).
S-Head finishes by talking about “delusional views based on no valid evidence— that qualify S-Head to be a member of the anthropogenic global warming denier cult”. I am laughing too hard to even attempt a reply to that.
In other words I call “Climate Crock” on you John Douglas Swallow. As opposed to calling BS.
So it would appear the origin of Feynman false quotes is that one of the nut jobs incorrectly associated Steve McIntyre quote to Feynman from that webpage. A clue if you had read Feynman’s works, it doesn’t sound like him.
Could you please show me where you got this quote?
It looks to be Steve McIntyre quote not Feynman
Source 1
http://climateaudit.org/2008/06/07/march-2008-radiosonde-data/
Steve:Serious people believe that it is an issue. There’s a lot of promotion and hype, but that doesn’t mean that, underneath it all, there isn’t a problem. No one’s shown that it’s not an issue. The hardest part for someone trying to understand the issue from first principles is locating a clear A-to-B exposition of how doubled CO2 produces a problem and I’m afraid that no one’s been able to give such a reference to me – the excuse is that such an exposition is too “routine” for climate scientists. That’s the first attitude than has to change.
Source 2
http://fabiusmaximus.com/2009/02/12/feynman/
As Feynman says, the steady march of science will sort these things out and the truth will be revealed. I believe it is too soon to say either way. As Steve McIntyre said (source; one of his countless statements like this):
“Serious people believe that it {AGW} is an issue. There’s a lot of promotion and hype, but…..
Anthropogenic climate change passenger Says:
“In other words I call “Climate Crock” on you John Douglas Swallow. As opposed to calling BS.
So it would appear the origin of Feynman false quotes is that one of the nut jobs incorrectly associated Steve McIntyre quote to Feynman from that webpage. A clue if you had read Feynman’s works, it doesn’t sound like him.”
[…]”Could you please show me where you got this quote?
It looks to be Steve McIntyre quote not Feynman”
Somehow I would have never considered you to be such as authority on what Richard P. Feynman may have said, and it appears that like most other things, you know nothing about him or his utterances. Here are a couple more plus his take on the value of experiments and that is something you alarmist have never done regarding your boogie man in the sky, CO2, Why not? Anyway, go to the link and you will find six pages of quotes attributed to Richard P. Feynman
“It doesn’t matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn’t matter how smart you are. If it doesn’t agree with experiment, it’s wrong.”
― Richard P. Feynman
https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/1429989.Richard_P_Feynman?page=3
“In general, we look for a new law by the following process: First we guess it; then we compute the consequences of the guess to see what would be implied if this law that we guessed is right; then we compare the result of the computation to nature, with experiment or experience, compare it directly with observation, to see if it works. If it disagrees with experiment, it is wrong. In that simple statement is the key to science. It does not make any difference how beautiful your guess is, it does not make any difference how smart you are, who made the guess, or what his name is — if it disagrees with experiment, it is wrong.”
― Richard P. Feynman
https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/1429989.Richard_P_Feynman?page=3
“We must conduct research and then accept the results. If they don’t stand up to experimentation, Buddha’s own words must be rejected.”
― Dalai Lama XIV
tags: buddha, buddhism, evidence, experimentation, reason, research, scientific-method, truth
So anyway, what were you implying, what ever your name is. That I just made these quotes up? Take a flying leap, you ignorant, clueless dud you couldn’t even look up when your own birthday is.
Tell me again where you got the quote? it is NOTon your link or do you need a lesson on what a quote is?
You lied and are continuing to do so. You have confused a Nobel laureate Richard Feynman with a Dumbbell laureate Steve McIntyre. Who doesn’t have an advance degree in science, and not only that he doesn’t have a degree in science at all but a 4 year (BS) in Mathematics.
In the quote “…clear A-to-B exposition of how doubled CO2 produces a problem” was a classical physics error something that Feynman would not have done.
It’s called doing the research. That what Feynman would have done. Disinformation is what Steve McIntyre does.
“Dumbbell Laureate” – I’m totally stealing that.
“(BS) in Mathematics” – not sure if you were trying to be funny here but it’s still chuckle-worthy.
Anthropogenic climate change passenger: Here is another quote for you to look into and this was directed at me by some one that is your intellectual equal.
j4zonian Says:
December 27, 2013 at 5:09 am
” ……Take your idiotic nonsense and shove it up your ass’s ass……”
Not me, John Douglass Swallow, the disciples, who knew an ass when they saw one, I’d guess. I’d ne’er say such a thing. Just reporting what others have said and thought about you.
Thanks John you have been invaluable in explaining cognitive dissonance to a few of my friends.
Sorry to take advantage you, but you put so much emotional cost in an incorrect argument about Richard Feynman. It comes down to this, which you demonstrated:
[Cognitive dissonance] Called upon to learn something which contradicts what they already think they know (Feynman quote) — particularly if they are committed to that prior knowledge — they are likely to resist the new learning.
In short, the simplest answer (removing dissonance) would have been admitting you were wrong about the quote, but you deflected then used ad hominem attracts. You had emotionally invested in your argument.
Now you have demonstrated why people deny science in the face of reality emotions rule logic.
Now the next step is confirmation bias: which people tend to seek out information that agrees with what they believe in as opposed to finding out that they were wrong. We call you bubble people. You can now return to Watts and company and/or FoxNews and Find True Happiness and Peace in your little bubble. Good day
Don’t forget disconfirmation bias and the “back fire’ effect, or the amygdala versus the anterior cingulate cortex. I keep pushing The Republican Brain, but it’s a real window into why certain folks DON”T use their brains to “think”.
I was watching Australian Broad cast last evening and they had this on about this ship stuck in the Antarctic Ice.
Rescue Underway For Russian Ship Trapped By Antarctic Ice DEC. 25, 2013, 9:15 PM
“The group on board the Russian ship are scientists and tourists recreating the historic voyage of explorer Sir Douglas Mawson to Antarctica a century ago.
They have been replicating the scientific experiments his team conducted during the 1911-1914 Australian Antarctic Expedition — the pre-eminent scientific expedition of its time to South Polar regions.”
http://www.businessinsider.com/russian-ship-arctic-rescue-2013-12
This shows what the actual temperature have been doing:
“The above graphic is Figure 1.4 from Chapter 1 of a draft of the Fifth Assessment Report from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.”
“[…] During this time atmospheric carbon dioxide rose by 12%, from 355 parts per million (ppm) to 396 ppm. The IPCC graph shows that climate models predicted temperatures should have responded by rising somewhere between about 0.2 and 0.9 degrees C over the same period. But the actual temperature change was only about 0.1 degrees, and was within the margin of error around zero. In other words, models significantly over-predicted the warming effect of CO2 emissions for the past 22 years.”
http://opinion.financialpost.com/2013/09/16/ipcc-models-getting-mushy/
Folks need to keep this in mind regarding the IPCC:
1. Scope and Approach of the Assessment 1.1. Mandate of the Assessment
The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) was established by World Meteorological Organization and United Nations Environmental Programme (UNEP) in 1988 to assess scientific, technical, and socioeconomic information that is relevant in understanding human-induced climate change, its potential impacts, and options for mitigation and adaptation. (Could this be the same World Meteorological Organization that now claims that Death Valley holds the world record high temperature?)
http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/tar/wg2/index.php?idp=22
And now it’s global COOLING! Return of Arctic ice cap as it grows by 29% in a year
533,000 more square miles of ocean covered with ice than in 2012
BBC reported in 2007 global warming would leave Arctic ice-free in summer by 2013
Publication of UN climate change report suggesting global warming caused by humans pushed back to later this month
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2415191/And-global-COOLING-Return-Arctic-ice-cap-grows-29-year.html
Correction on my post of December 27, 2013 at 3:59 pm
“S/he should [s]top what s/he’s doing now and s/he may be forgiven by future generations.” sorry for the typo.
Swallow. What’s your proposition. It’s unstated. Is it, the world is cooling? A simple yes or no.
Temperature records compiled by NASA, NOAA and the UK Met Office all show no global warming since the nineties, some cooling and very little warming before that. What happens in the future depends on what the driver of the earth’s climate, the sun that makes up 99.8% of the mass in the solar system, does.
“Sun’s Current Solar Activity Cycle Is Weakest in a Century December 11, 2013 06:50pm ET
“None of us alive have ever seen such a weak cycle. So we will learn something,” Leif Svalgaard of Stanford University told reporters here today (Dec. 11) at the annual meeting of the American Geophysical Union. [Solar Max: Amazing Sun Storm Photos of 2013]”
http://www.space.com/23934-weak-solar-cycle-space-weather.html
Recently, NASA’s James Hansen also recognized that global temperatures have not risen for more than a decade.
“Even though the scientific case for the standstill is secure, and well represented in peer-reviewed scientific literature, it will surely help the climate debate now that the IPCC chairman has confirmed its existence,” said Dr David Whitehouse, the GWPF’s science editor.
http://www.thegwpf.org/global-temperature-standstill-gains-ipcc-support/
THE UN’s climate change chief, Rajendra Pachauri, has acknowledged a 17-year pause in global temperature rises, confirmed recently by Britain’s Met Office, but said it would need to last “30 to 40 years at least” to break the long-term global warming trend.
“The recent pause in warming
July 2013 – Global mean surface temperatures rose rapidly from the 1970s, but have been relatively flat over the most recent 15 years to 2013.”
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/news/recent-pause-in-warming
what Hansen actually says
what the Met office actually says, had you read your own link
“The first paper shows that a wide range of observed climate indicators continue to show changes that are consistent with a globally warming world, and our understanding of how the climate system works.”
“cool sun” – but warmest November ever
http://www.usatoday.com/story/weather/2013/12/17/warm-november-global-climate-report/4052839/
more on “solar cooling” nonsense
you have been watching Fox closely and taking notes, I see.
Peter; Do you pay any attention to your videos? In the one you show here, you have Josh Willis expounding on how much rise there is in sea levels because of, I guess your thermal expansion of the oceans & them beginning to boil away, and in the video that you showed at the beginning of this about Antarctica, you have Ted Scambos demonstrating that the sea level raise is one mm/year.
This is what an actual scientist that has spent his career studying sea levels has to say and it is better information the conflicting views that you present.
MÖRNER, Nils-Axel, Paleogeophysics & Geodynamics, Stockholm Univ, Stockholm S-10691 Sweden, morner@pog.su.se.
“Both the glacial loading models and the ICPP scenarios are strongly contradicted by observational data for the last 100-150 years that cannot have exceeded a mean rate of 1.0-1.1 mm/year. In the last 300 years, sea level has been oscillation close to the present with peak rates in the period 1890-1930. Sea level fell between 1930 and 1950. The late 20th century lacks any sign of acceleration. Satellite altimetry indicates virtually no changes in the last decade.”
https://gsa.confex.com/gsa/inqu/finalprogram/abstract_54461.htm
You and your hero, James Hansen, are going to have to watch yourself because it is a scientific fact that warm water releases CO2. It has been demonstrated that the rise in CO2 occurs up to 800 years after the warning event that took place due to solar activity.
Have you ever given any thought to just what the sun’s actions can do?
What If the Biggest Solar Storm on Record Happened Today?
“Repeat of 1859 Carrington Event would devastate modern world, experts say.
[…]In 1859, such reports were mostly curiosities. But if something similar happened today, the world’s high-tech infrastructure could grind to a halt.”
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/03/110302-solar-flares-sun-storms-earth-danger-carrington-event-science/
If you plan on posting here you need to improve your performance slightly or you’ll end up looking like a liar (Feynman) quote.
First off we give real sources not random newspaper articles unless it is the main part of the subject.
This link you gave https://gsa.confex.com/gsa/inqu/finalprogram/abstract_54461.htm is a poor example if you had spent a little time you could’ve actually found his real work which is here:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921818103000973 and as far as spending his career his career it ended after this publication and has been absent from the scientific community for almost 10 years. But he does show up on denial circuits.
In your comment should also reflect the actual article for example he says satellite altimetry indicates virtually no change in the last decade. But notice his dates, his data plot only goes from 1993 to the end of 1998. Not exactly current data isn’t but let’s help you out some more. And as far as the IPCC he is using TAR http://www.grida.no/publications/other/ipcc_tar/?src=/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/408.htm
Some of his latest cuckoo for Cocoa puffs comments are below
http://www.climatechangefacts.info/ClimateChangeDocuments/NilsAxelMornerinterview.pdf
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/19/despite-popular-opinion-and-calls-to-action-the-maldives-is-not-being-overrun-by-sea-level-rise/
He then starts resorting to conspiracy theories and claiming doctored. It would actually be nice if he could prove this but he can’t he has dropped out of science in general and now is working with the heartland Institute for the advancement of stupidity.
You know the type when they have been proven wrong and have too much emotionally invested they no longer use reason they resort to emotional attacks conspiracy theories all the cognitive dissonance things.
So what’s happening in the real world of science? http://sealevel.colorado.edu/ currently showing a linear trend of 3.2 mm per year.
We have gravitational measurements from satellites showing an accelerated melt rate in Greenland as well as an Antarctica.
See if you were actually a true skeptic and being skeptical of yourself which most of us here are: you would start to read peer-reviewed articles from Nature, Science and The Proceedings for National Academy of Sciences and so on and see what the current thinking is.
Or you could just watch Peter’s video he does something that you obviously don’t know how to do and that is fact check.
One thing I will apologize for. I have a little bit of a cold and my voice to text postings are not as good as I would like. Plus I really don’t want to spend too much time editing especially when it’s nonsense like you are posting.
He apparently doesn’t understand “simple yes or no”
Has he firmly stated any positions yet?
Not that I can see. I doubt that he would recognize a “firm position” if he sat on it and it bit him.
The standstill / hiatus / whatever was in SURFACE temps – for places where there are adequate numbers of thermometers & records.
Neither is true of the Arctic where there’s been a substantial loss of ice volume during the very time period of the “standstill”
In case you’re not aware, ice / water have a VERY high enthalpy of fusion / latent heat of melting, during which its temperature would remain constant while changing state.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/latent-heat-melting-solids-d_96.html
So long as we have a day & night and a changing axial tilt coupled with extensive ocean coverage and complex circulation patterns of wind & water, we’re never going to have every part of the globe warming at the same rate or the same time.
Also, since the oceans have been absorbing so much of the excess heat in comparison to the atmosphere & land, a very small percentage change in ocean heat uptake can have a dramatic effect on surface temps.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WhereIsTheHeatOfGlobalWarming.svg
MorinMoss: There may have been a loss of ice over a period of time; but, there has also been a remarkable recovery over a very short period of time. Keep in mind how chilly Arctic summer can leave 533,000 more square miles of ocean covered with ice than at the same time last year and that is an increase of 29 per cent. Please note that the rebound from 2012’s record low comes six years after the BBC reported that global warming would leave the Arctic ice-free in summer by 2013 and I imagine that is exactly what you and Peter also thought.
Now you are truly grasping for straws and at the same time admitting, without obviously doing so, that there has been a hiatus in surface temperature but you did not mention that there has been no warming over the tropical Hot Spot as demonstrated by satellite temperature readings and now wanting to believe that it the oceans that are hiding your missing heat. You need to consider this below before making such statements and trying to prove it with Wikipedia.
“The interaction between water temperature and salinity effects density and density determines thermohaline circulation, or the global conveyor belt.[…] “As water travels through the water cycle, some water will become part of The Global Conveyer Belt and can take up to 1,000 years to complete this global circuit. It represents in a simple way how ocean currents carry warm surface waters from the equator toward the poles and moderate global climate.”
http://science.nasa.gov/earth-science/oceanography/ocean-earth-system/ocean-water-cycle/
Read the following, incl the comments
http://www.skepticalscience.com/tropospheric-hot-spot.htm
Did you read what I said about Arctic warming, the lack of adequate coverage by thermometers there (and the enthalpy of fusion of ice ) during the supposed “hiatus” period?
How can a “lack of adequate coverage by thermometers” have anything to do with the fact that the Arctic now has 533,000 more square miles of ocean covered with ice than at the same time last year – an increase of 29 per cent?
You should have been worrying about the lack of thermometers when NOAA did this:
Perhaps the key point discovered by Smith was that by 1990, NOAA had deleted from its datasets all but 1,500 of the 6,000 thermometers in service around the globe.
Now, 75% represents quite a drop in sampling population, particularly considering that these stations provide the readings used to compile both the Global Historical Climatology Network (GHCN) and United States Historical Climatology Network (USHCN) datasets.
“….Canada’s reporting stations dropped from 496 in 1989 to 44 in 1991, with the percentage of stations at lower elevations tripling while the numbers of those at higher elevations dropped to one. That’s right: As Smith wrote in his blog, they left “one thermometer for everything north of LAT 65.” And that one resides in a place called Eureka, which has been described as “The Garden Spot of the Arctic” due to its unusually moderate summers.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/01/climategate_cru_was_but_the_ti.html
MorinMoss Says:
“Here’s a more interesting question – why did they abandon North America and forgot it even existed?” Who says they abandoned North America. You should have some idea of just how far from home they were and there were no Boeing 747 jets flying back to Oslo then. Even though they did not have to fight the ice then that they would have had to now, it was a long trip.
“Moreover, their journeys did result in one very probable legacy — the creation of a mixed race called the Mandans, who for hundreds of years thereafter occupied the northern plains west of the Great Lakes.
Viking expeditions made their way along the eastern coast of North America and also explored the northern waterways of Canada, reaching the western shore of Hudson Bay and continuing inland and southward to Lake Winnipeg. Under circumstances lost to the recorded annals of history, some of these Vikings were apparently captured and adopted into the Mandan tribe. European explorers of the seventeenth century described the Mandans as a race unique in the Americas, the people said to have mixed hair colorings and many being fair skinned and blue eyed.
http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/essays/general/civilizations-under-siege/viking-settlement-and-the-mandans.php
Sorry but the Mandan / Norse connection has long since been discredited by actual researchers ( sound familiar?) and since the tribe still exists, genetic analysis would have established that link conclusively.
And it would take quite a bit of intermixing to establish blue eyes among a Native American population.
As for the “long trip”, it’s really not that far and they could stop over at Iceland and Greenland on the way.
MorinMoss: How has it been “discredited by actual researchers”? You say it would “take quite a bit of intermixing to establish blue eyes among a Native American population” I was raised on the Wind River Reservation in WY. and I am here to tell you that I have many relatives that have blue eyes and blond hair. Tell me about the tribes in the east that look like your typical Native American. Ever since I was a child I heard about the Mandan’s and their relationship with the Vikings because, if you do not know this, Lewis & Clark spent a winter with them and they acquired a Shoshone woman, Sacagawea, to serve as guide on the rest of the journey. This fact is also disputed because there are some who have no idea about what happened next that claim that she did not die an old woman on the Wind River and was buried there by the Reverend Roberts, who had a mission there, in the what is now known as the Sacagawea cemetery a few miles west of Fort Washakie and up the South fork of the Wind River.
Anyway, how is genetic analysis going to establish this link with a population that, through the years, has been so diluted? It may be possible with the Navajo, and other tribes in the Southwest or perhaps with the different Eskimo tribes but not with the Mandan.
S-Head shows that he is at least as ignorant of things related to genetics as he is to things related to climate change. He asks? “How is genetic analysis going to establish this link with a population that, through the years, has been so diluted?”
It may surprise S-Head to know that we are now able to trace genes back to the very first humans and show “links” among human populations all over the world going back hundreds of thousands and even millions of years. (Ever hear of mitochondrial DNA?) A link to 1000 years back is child’s play.
And S-Head then definitively states for us “It may be possible with the Navajo, and other tribes in the Southwest or perhaps with the different Eskimo tribes but not with the Mandan”. Really? See the previous paragraph and tell us why it IS possible to trace the genetics of the tribes mentioned back for many thousands of years but NOT the so-called “Mandans”?
Let me speak loudly here so that S-head may perhaps hear. THE MANDAN “LEGEND” IS A HOAX. S-Head is a hoax—he looks more and more to be a paid denier and one who “plays stupid” to distract us. Nobody that can figure out how to use a computer can really be that dumb—-it’s an act.
Genealogical DNA testing of the modern Mandans along with the other members of the Affiliated Tribes should have been able to determine the likelihood of Viking ancestry and approximately from when.
It may require sampling a lot of individuals but there’s enough info on blood-group distributions, mitochondrial DNA and Y-chromosomal haplogroups, etc to figure this out conclusively.
Deja vu all over again, MM? There is no “should have been able to determine the likelihood” or “may require to figure out conclusively” needed. It is just as you intimated in your comment on 12/29.
Scientists and linguists have looked at the evidence, and there is NO truth to the various legends of the Vikings, the Welsh or any other Europeans “mixing” with the Mandans 1000 years ago. (Except in the minds of those like Swallow who thrive on legend rather than reality).
PS Thinking about Swallows remarks about being raised on the Wind River Reservation and having all those relatives with blond hair and blue eyes makes me laugh. Blue eyes is a recessive trait. Hair color is the result of several genes interacting, blonde tends to be recessive and Native Americans were pretty heavy on the black and brown.
I would suggest that there are “many white men in the woodpile” in Swallow’s ancestry, and that they got in there over the last 300 years. That’s why those recessive traits keep popping out, not because of any Vikings. (Although I can see why that’s a more attractive idea than the truth—-no one wants to think badly of their great-great-great-great grandma)
It is interesting that this all started out with “New Climate Denial Meme: “It’s cold in Antarctica”. Duh.” and then just got better from there. Now we have this:
“A Russian vessel is stranded in ice off the coast of Antarctica with 74 people onboard, including the scientific team recreating explorer Douglas Mawson’s Australasian Antarctic Expedition from a century ago.”
“[…]Had the ship carrying the trio of explorers in 1912, the Aurora, gotten icebound the same way the M.V. Akademik Shokalskiy did, there would have been no rescue option and certain death.”
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/12/131226-russian-ship-stuck-ice-mawson-trek-antarctica/?rptregcta=reg_free_np&rptregcampaign=20131016_rw_membership_r1p_intl_ot_w#
Eighty three years ago today, Mawson was sailing along the Antarctic coast. In 2013,a global warming nutcases trying to retrace Mawson’s route are hoping an icebreaker comes and saves them.
“Sir DOUGLAS MAWSON’S second expedition on SCOTT’S Discovery to Antarctic waters south of the Indian Ocean and Australia is by this time already near the coast which he skirted and explored in the Summer of 1929-30. He identified Enderby and Kemp Lands, first seen by British explorers a hundred years before.”
“The expedition is being led by Chris Turney, “climate scientist”, who has “set up a carbon refining company called Carbonscape which has developed technology to fix carbon from the atmosphere and make a host of green bi-products, helping reduce greenhouse gas levels.” The purpose of the expedition is “to discover and communicate the environmental changes taking place in the south.”
[…]”…The current crop of explorers are hoping to document some of the same data and compare them to Mawson’s numbers, “using the twist of modern technology,” Turney told National Geographic earlier this month.
As may be expected, global warming might play a role in this, he suggests, particularly with respect to melted ice in the East Antarctic.”
“One hundred years after Mawson’s journey, we still don’t know much about the Antarctic.”
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/12/131226-russian-ship-stuck-ice-mawson-trek-antarctica/?rptregcta=reg_free_np&rptregcampaign=20131016_rw_membership_r1p_intl_ot_w#