My first crowd-sourced science expedition was in August 2012, when I joined Dr. Mauri Pelto in the Northern Cascades range, just this side of the Canadian border, on Easton Glacier, a major ice slab on the south face of Mt Baker, an active volcano.
Dr. Pelto has been trekking these glaciers for 30 years, painstakingly compiling a record of snow fall, freeze, thaw, melt, and motion. Pelto is held in the highest regard by his peers, and working with him, you realize why. The work is at once physically demanding, overwhelming, even dangerous – and yet calls for the utmost in careful measure and method.
Part 2 of last week’s Skype conversation with Dr. Pelto is above.
Very interesting and saddening.
You might find this tip useful, though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am3bxXGe72A
Peter – Congratulations. What a wonderful and beautiful video. The music and cinematography are moving. I imagine the cameraman had to be careful, too!
those crevasses were freakin huge.
I wonder what Dr. Mauri Pelto’s observation would have been had he been able to observe this glacier retreat?
I have had my own boat up into Glacier Bay in Southeast Alaska on a couple of occasions and what follows applies to your, I assume, dire warnings regarding melting glaciers: Keep in mind that Geo. Vancouver’s ships were wind powered; therefore, he wasn’t spewing out any diesel smoke to start this massive retreat of these glaciers. “The explorer Captain George Vancouver found Icy Strait, at the south end of Glacier Bay, choked with ice in 1794. Glacier Bay itself was almost entirely iced over. In 1879 naturalist John Muir found that the ice had retreated almost all the way up the bay. By 1916 the Grand Pacific Glacier was at the head of Tarr Inlet about 65 miles from Glacier Bay’s mouth. This is the fastest documented glacier retreat ever. Scientists are hoping to learn how glacial activity relates to climate changes and global warming from these retreating giants.
http://soundwaves.usgs.gov/2001/07/glacierbaymap.gif
Glacier Bay was first surveyed in detail in 1794 by a team from the H.M.S. Discovery, captained by George Vancouver. At the time the survey produced showed a mere indentation in the shoreline. That massive glacier was more than 4,000 feet thick in places, up to 20 miles wide, and extended more than 100 miles to the St. Elias mountain range.
By 1879, however, naturalist John Muir discovered that the ice had retreated more than 30 miles forming an actual bay. By 1916, the Grand Pacific Glacier – the main glacier credited with carving the bay – had melted back 60 miles to the head of what is now Tarr Inlet.
http://www.glacierbay.org/geography.html
I have been in the North Cascades when my daughter was a back country ranger and spent 10 days in the mountains, by herself, and then would go back to Marblemount, WA and do what she wanted for 4 days before going back into the mountains. I have been to Nepal on three separate occasions and did the Everest Base camp hike and also the Thorung La Pass trek at 17,765 feet and around 20,000 feet on Kilimanjaro and there was one common characteristic shared by all of these places and that was that is was cold up there and I saw no glaciers disappearing before my eyes. The Raina report is a good sources of information on the Himalayan glaciers.
“GLACIERGATE” HIGHLIGHTS IPCC FLAWS
by John McLean | October 19, 2010
SUMMARY FOR POLICYMAKERS
“The inclusion of erroneous and
inconsistent material in the section dealing
with Himalayan glaciers has highlighted
some serious flaws in how the IPCC creates
its highly influential assessment reports.”
http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/images/stories/papers/originals/glacier_gate.pdf
Himalayan Glaciers
A State-of-Art Review of Glacial Studies,
Glacial Retreat and Climate Change
And we don’t forget the Raina report;
http://gbpihed.gov.in/MoEF%20Dissussion%20Paper%20on%20Himalayan%20Glaciers.pdf
This is a good report on glaciers in the Indian Himalayan Mountains.
“There is a school of thought that postulates that the
current fluctuations, in the form of glacier advance
or retreat, is likely to be more in response to the past
climate than the immediate one. Scientists working
on similar problems in Rockies and Alps, are of the
opinion that, “A large mountain glacier would take
1,000 to 10,000 years to respond to warming today,
while a small mountain glacier would take 100 to
1,000 years to respond. Thus, one explanation for
the glacier retreat could be: they are responding
to natural warming that occurred either during the
Medieval Warm Period in the 11th century or to an
even warmer period that occurred 6,000 years ago”
Stonehead is back? If he was sent on a “vacation” from Crock to do a little self-examination, may I suggest that it hasn’t done much good. Although his tone is perhaps a bit more subdued, he is still posting the same denialist horsepucky. How many “useful idiots” does Crock need?
If he starts to comment as frequently as the “#1 useful idiot” daveburton, I will have to spend all my time deleting rather than reading.
“It was cold up there and I saw no glaciers disappearing before my eyes”?
Lord love a duck!
DNFTT
Agreed—-note that I did say “deleting rather than reading”. I read this one to confirm that JDHuahin is in fact AKA JDSwallow. Same “bird”.
Yes. He’s up to two posts without a reply. Let’s see how long he goes on talking about himself to himself. Let Peter take care of it. You certainly don’t need to fear someone might be fooled by that stuff. For an interesting read, I think I finally found a stopper for all that DB sea level acceleration claptrap on jan 16, south Florida rising seas. I’m thru with Dave. It’s repetition now. He will have ti find something stickier to throw against the wall. See what you think about my comments. BTW, I really enjoy Mario Peltos calm demeanor and admire his tenacity and resolve climbing glaciers for data. Peter could sit behind a desk, too, but froze his arse instead. Dedication.
I think you have come up with some good stuff that will put more nails in the lid of Dave’s coffin. Will he notice?.
Looks like he snuck in under a different name.
I think he used the “Huahin” several years back—-that’s where I got the “stonehead” nickname from, because that’s what huahin literally translates to and that’s where he lives in Thailand (and it’s SO fitting).
Yes J Doug Swallow is back and I will use my own name. That is something that “dumboldguy” will not do for obvious reasons. It is interesting that AKA, dumboldguy, Stupid old A…H… or what ever else seems to fit this poor degenerative individual who can only launch ad hominem attacks instead of address the information that I presented and debate that. It would take too much effort and thought to do so and that is something that aka is very short of.
“I will have to spend all my time deleting rather than reading.” It certainly appears from your idiotic post AKA, that this is something you have done most of your life.
Welcome back, Stonehead. I would be glad to “address” any “real information” that you provide, but you don’t provide any. And you want to talk about ad hominem attacks? The lowest form is the simple name-calling that you seem to prefer—-I try for a bit more “elegance” in mine.
Like Jack Nicholson in the shining, heess baacckk! What a cockroach. Couldn’t log in as swallow so used another name. I have seen that before. Its not as easy as banning names to get rid of trolls.
Christopher Arcus: What makes you think you know how I tried to log in? I logged in using WordPress and not Facebook. Now you have found something else that you know absolutely nothing about, sea level rise, and there is very little sea level rise if you had the interest to look something up instead of just shoot your mouth off, like another one on here who HAS never produced one example of credible information.
THE MALDIVES SEA LEVEL PROJECT. II: PAST-PRESENT-FUTURE
MÖRNER, Nils-Axel, Paleogeophysics & Geodynamics, Stockholm Univ, Stockholm S-10691 Sweden, morner@pog.su.se.
The Maldives have a uniquely position in sea level research (as discussed in Integrated Coastal Zone Management, No. 1, 2000, p. 17-20). In the last decade, they have attracted special attention because, in the IPCC-scenario, the Maldives would be condemned to become flooded in the next 50-100 years. Our research data do not lend support to any such flooding scenario, however. On the contrary, we find no signs of any on-going sea level rise.
Co-authored with the Maldives Project Team Members.
https://gsa.confex.com/gsa/inqu/finalprogram/abstract_54486.htm
If you wanted to learn something about this issue, you could go to this link below and see many sites to look into that have been presented by many different experts on this issue, and that is something that you are not. Dr. Morner has been recognized world wide as one of the leading experts on sea levels from his many years of work on the subject.
Session No. 93–Booth# 75
Holocene Sea Level Changes, Coastal Evolution and Future Prospects (Posters)
“Sea levels are rising dangerously at a rate that has accelerated with increasing human GHG emissions, thereby threatening small islands and coastal communities.”
Expert response by Professor Nils-Axel Mörner
In 1991-2005 Professor Mörner was head of Paleogeophysics & Geodynamics at Stockholm University, in 1999-2003 president of the commission on Sea Level Changes and Coastal Evolution, from 2000 on leader of the Maldives International Sea Level Project, in 1997-2003 coordinator of the INTAS project on Geomagnetism and climate, and in 2008,he was awarded the “Golden Condrite of Merit” from Algarve University “for his irreverence and contribution to our understanding of sea level change”. morner@pog.nu
http://www.copenhagenclimatechallenge.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=53&Itemid=55
Morner?
He claims to use the data from the Topex Poseidon satellite measurements. Here’s what the actual team that manages that satellite project says about Morner’s work.
“We feel compelled to respond to the recent article by Mörner (2004) because he makes several major errors in his analysis, and as a result completely misinterprets the record of sea level change from the TOPEX/Poseidon (T/P) satellite altimeter mission. One major criticism we have with the paper is that Mörner does not include a single reference to any altimeter study, all of which refute his claim that there is no apparent change in global mean sea level (GMSL) [see Cazenave and Nerem, (2004) for a summary]. The consensus of all other researchers looking at the T/P and Jason data is that GMSL has been rising at a rate of 3.0 mm/year (Fig. 1) over the last 13 years (3.3 mm/year when corrected for the effects of glacial isostatic adjustment (Tamisiea et al., 2005)).
Mörner gives no details for the source of the data or processing strategy he used to produce Fig. 2, other than to say it is based on “raw data”. Because the details of the analysis are not presented in his paper, we are left to speculate on how this result could have been obtained,
⁎ Corresponding author. Colorado Center for Astrodynamics Research, University of Colorado, United States.
E-mail address: nerem@colorado.edu (R.S. Nerem).
0921-8181/$ – see front matter © 2006 Published by Elsevier B.V. doi:10.1016/j.gloplacha.2006.08.002
based on our years of experience as members of the T/P and Jason-1 Science Working Team. Mörner was ap- parently oblivious to the corrections that must be made to the “raw” altimeter data in order to make correct use of the data.”
also
“Mörner3s paper completely misrepresents the results from the T/P mission, and does discredit to the tremendous amount of work that has been expended by the Science Working Team to create a precise, validated, and calibrated sea level data set suitable for studies of climate variations. Finally, Mörner ignores substantial other oceanographic (e.g. Levitus et al., 2001; Antonov et al., 2002; Munk, 2003; Willis et al., 2004) and cryospheric (e.g. Dyurgerov and Meier, 2000; Rignot et al., 2003; Krabill et al., 2004; Thomas et al., 2004) evidence of sea level rise which corroborate the altimeter observations.”
published in “Global and Planetary Change” February 2007.
Morner is well known for his expertise in “dowsing”, and has been singled out by the para-psychology debunker James Randi as a “Pompous ass dowser”
http://www.randi.org/hotline/1998/0012.html
Morner’s other projects described here.
http://www.monbiot.com/2011/12/04/the-spectators-spectacular-blunder/
fun quote:
“Reviewing such claims, the archaeologist and chair of the Swedish Skeptics Society, Martin Rundkvist, comments that if Nils-Axel Mörner is associated with a project, it’s “a solid guarantee for high-grade woo.””
Thanks for playing. You know, I was thinking about blocking you, but you’re too valuable.
Post away, my friend.
Peter says to Stonehead, “Thanks for playing. You know, I was thinking about blocking you, but you’re too valuable. Post away, my friend”, so it’s clear that Peter considers Stonehead to be a “useful idiot” and intends to let him “sneak in” to Crock under whatever name he chooses on a given day. Since he has now gone back to “Swallow”, I will change his nickname to “Birdbrain”, which also fits the quality of his reasoning and what he purports to be “information”. I like to play too.
Birdbrain says to Christopher Arcus: “….there is very little sea level rise if you had the interest to look something up instead of just shoot your mouth off, like another one on here who HAS never produced one example of credible information”. I presume I am “the other one” mentioned there, and want to assure Birdbrain (AKA Stonehead) that I will continue to look up every piece of garbage “information” that he posts here and report back to Crock that it is not credible, but just the furious sweepings of a mindless denier. Peter has already beaten me to the punch here, but I concur that Morner is “not credible” and his views have been disowned by INQUA and just about everyone else.
In an earlier comment, Birdbrain referenced the Science and Public Policy Institute, a laughable Heartland Institute-associated denier group, and an obscure Indian scientist who spoke about something very LOCAL while EVERYONE IN THE WORLD is concerned about the GLOBAL retreat of glaciers EVERYWHERE IN THE WORLD (same old birdbrain, same old tricks). Will he continue to harp on the mistake the IPCC made way back when on Himalayan glaciers, or will he find new trash to spread—-can’t wait to see.
PS I found it amusing to go to one of Birdbrain’s links to a crackpot site for a definitive graph that would settle all arguments, only to be told “Image Not Available”. LOL A fitting “tag” for Birdbrain would be “Intelligence Not Available”.
PS I found it amusing to go to one of Birdbrain’s links to a crackpot site for a definitive graph that would settle all arguments, only to be told “Image Not Available”. LOL A fitting “tag” for Birdbrain would be “Intelligence Not Available”.
Old Guy: I have had to reappraise my view of you. I have gone from holding you in contempt to now having pity for you and your obvious defects that you have had to struggle with all of your life and I can see where it has left you totally ignorant.
On January 21, 2014 at 5:02 am I said this that you were unable to comprehend because who ever was reading it to you must have spoke with a lisp or did not spell it out for you.
“Since, for some reason, the chart is not available within the link above, you can find it here, in the very slight chance that you have enough interest in this to look at it.
NASA satellites detect pothole on road to higher seas
Aug 24, 2011 By Alan Buis
http://phys.org/news/2011-08-nasa-satellites-pothole-road-higher.html
“The red line in this image shows the long-term increase in global sea level since satellite altimeters began measuring it in the early 1990s. Since then, sea level has risen by a little more than an inch each decade, or about 3 millimeters …”
http://phys.org/news/2011-08-nasa-satellites-pothole-road-higher.html
“Red line shows increase in global sea level since the early 1990s. Sea level has risen by a little more than an inch each decade, or about 3 mm per year. The recent drop of nearly one quarter inch (½ cm), is attributable to the switch from El Niño to La Niña.”
(Credit: S. Nerem, University of Colorado)
Birdbrain shows us that his brain is hummingbird size rather than swallow size with this link. Here’s a direct quote from the piece. Perhaps Hummingbirdbrain can find an “eagle” to interpret it for him. (Not Morner, though, he’s just a Woo bird).
“But for those who might argue that these data show us entering a long-term period of decline in global sea level, Willis cautions that sea level drops such as this one cannot last, and over the long-run, the trend remains solidly up. Water flows downhill, and the extra rain will eventually find its way back to the sea. When it does, global sea level will rise again”.
“We’re heating up the planet, and in the end that means more sea level rise,” says Willis. “But El Niño and La Niña always take us on a rainfall rollercoaster, and in years like this they give us sea-level whiplash.”
Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2011-08-nasa-satellites-pothole-road-higher.html#jCp
I will give this to in increments so as though not to overwhelm you with the facts. One can only wonder why your team of experts were not at the Geological Society of America to raise their objections.
But in mid July, something happened unexpectedly: the North Pole saw one of its coolest summers since instrumental records have been kept, and sea ice melt also slowed down markedly, proceeding at a rate we normally only see only in the second half of August, see chart that follows:
You should admit Peter, that if the arctic ice is not melting then the ice on Greenland is also not melting; therefore, where is the water for all of this sea level increase going to come from?
This is one piece of information on sea level rise to take note of:
”Reconstruction of regional mean sea level anomalies from tide gauges using neural networks The global mean sea level for the period January 1900 to December 2006 is estimated to rise at a rate of 1.56 ± 0.25 mm/yr which is reasonably consistent with earlier estimates, but we do not find significant acceleration. ”
http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2010/2009JC005630.shtml
In order to have the catastrophic sea level rise that you are wanting to claim will happen if one more lump of coal is burned, there would have to be melting of the Greenland ice sheet.
Journal of Climate 2012 ; e-View
”We find a 12% or 86 Gt y-1 increase in ice sheet accumulation rate from the end of the Little Ice Age in ~1840 to the last decade of the reconstruction. This 1840-1996 trend is 30% higher than that of 1600-2009, suggesting an accelerating accumulation rate. The correlation of Ât(G) with the average surface air temperature in the Northern.”
http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/JCLI-D-12-00373.1
This link did not get included in the above:…..we normally only see only in the second half of August, see chart that follows:
http://notrickszone.com/2013/08/03/arctic-sea-ice-melt-slowdown-begins-more-than-one-month-early-and-absolute-dead-media-silence-on-antarctica/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
I hope Peter, because are a friend, that you are always seeking the truth and here it is for you.
“Thanks for playing. You know, I was thinking about blocking you, but you’re too valuable.
Post away, my friend.”
“Journal of Geophysical Research: Oceans (1978–2012)
Reconstruction of regional mean sea level anomalies from tide gauges using neural networks:
“The global mean sea level for the period January 1900 to December 2006 is estimated to rise at a rate of 1.56 ± 0.25 mm/yr which is reasonably consistent with earlier estimates, but we do not find significant acceleration. The regional mean sea level of the single ocean basins show mixed long-term behavior. While most of the basins show a sea level rise of varying strength there is an indication for a mean sea level fall in the southern Indian Ocean. Also for the tropical Indian and the South Atlantic no significant trend can be detected. Nevertheless, the South Atlantic as well as the tropical Atlantic are the only basins that show significant acceleration. On shorter timescales, but longer than the annual cycle, the basins sea level are dominated by oscillations with periods of about 50–75 years and of about 25 years. Consequently, we find high (lagged) correlations between the single basins.”
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2009JC005630/abstract
(Peter: This report says; “Also for the tropical Indian and the South Atlantic no significant trend can be detected.” Isn’t this an area where the Maldives are located that was the main subject of Professor Nils-Axel Mörner’s report.)
Your hero said this: “multi-meter sea level rise on the century time scale are not only possible, but almost dead certain”
James Hansen – 2011
Dr. Steve Nerem said this:
“In the last 50 years sea level has risen at an estimated rate of .18 centimeters (.07 inches) per year, but in the last 12 years that rate appears to be .3 centimeters (.12 inches) per year. Roughly half of that is attributed to the expansion of ocean water as it has increased in temperature, with the rest coming from other sources, “said Dr. Steve Nerem, associate professor, Colorado Center for Astrodynamics Research, University of Colorado, Boulder.
Dr. Steve Nerem is with NASA but obviously not with the GISS branch of it that Hansen ran.
Increased ice loading in the Antarctic Peninsula since the 1850s and its effect on Glacial Isostatic Adjustment
Key Points
• Accumulation increase results in up to 45 m extra ice thickness over 155 years
• Model predicts GIA-related subsidence of up to 7 mm/yr which will affect GPS
• GRACE-derived rates of ice-mass change are biased low by ignoring this signal
Antarctic Peninsula (AP) ice core records indicate significant accumulation increase since 1855, and any resultant ice mass increase has the potential to contribute substantially to present-day Glacial Isostatic Adjustment (GIA).
http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/pip/2012GL052559.shtml
Peter, if the icecaps on Greenland and the Antarctic are not melting, where is all of this water coming from to cause what you want to believe is a devastating rise in sea levels?
I have seen in Ha Long Bay, Vietnam, and in the Andaman Sea where lime stone meets the sea water, evidence that in the past the sea level has been far in excess of what it is now. I also saw evidence of this on Zanzibar. What caused this with out any anthropogenic influence?
Birdbrain is once again demonstrating his stupidity by linking to something he THINKS says the ice on the Antarctic Peninsula is not melting. The “155 years” are from 1855 to 2010, and the paper appears to be talking about its impact on GPS monitoring of the GIA, and not at all about “melting”.
Any quick search of what the ice is doing on the Antarctic Peninsula will yield the info that it is melting at an unprecedented rate.
He also still fails to understand that the Greenland ice sheet IS melting in a way that is disturbing. Is there any hope for Birdbrain? I fear not.
He seals the deal with “I have seen in Ha Long Bay, Vietnam, and in the Andaman Sea where lime stone meets the sea water, evidence that in the past the sea level has been far in excess of what it is now. I also saw evidence of this on Zanzibar.”
And then asks “What caused this with out any anthropogenic influence?” DUH!!!
I put more stock in what a real oceanographer says than the ones with no experience that are going on conjecture only. When will good honest folks be listened to instead of self-serving charlatans in it for the money?
“Claims of dramatic and dangerous sea level rise submerging small islands and coastal communities are not supported by actual observational data
In 1999, I was expert reviewer of the chapter on Sea Level Changes in the IPCC report. I was struck and shocked by two facts; one was that none of the 22 authors was classified as a true sea level specialist, and the other was the very low quality of the text. Because, I had been just elected president of the International Union for Quaternary Research (INQUA) commission on Sea Level Changes and Coastal Evolution, I took up the main issue in our commission, an organization hosting some 300-400 true sea level specialists from all around the world………..”
http://www.copenhagenclimatechallenge.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=53&Itemid=55
Red line shows increase in global sea level since the early 1990s. Sea level has risen by a little more than an inch each decade, or about 3 mm per year. The recent drop of nearly one quarter inch (½ cm), is attributable to the switch from El Niño to La Niña.
(Credit: S. Nerem, University of Colorado)
http://iceagenow.info/2011/08/sea-levels-dropped-2010/
Since, for some reason, the chart is not available within the link above, you can find it here, in the very slight chance that you have enough interest in this to look at it.
NASA satellites detect pothole on road to higher seas
Aug 24, 2011 By Alan Buis
http://phys.org/news/2011-08-nasa-satellites-pothole-road-higher.html
Birdbrain asks, “When will good honest folks be listened to instead of self-serving charlatans in it for the money?”
Good question. There are “self-serving charlatans” in Huahin, Thailand who are apparently supplementing their income by working as paid deniers. Let’s hope that the “good honest folks” are not taken in by their horsepucky.
Dumboldguy – How are you? Staying warm after the winter blast? this is truly odd. Swallow has turned to sea level. Did his masters give new orders? His delusions leave me disinterested. He harkens back to the hoary days of blanket GW denial. Ahh, for the good old days.
Since you asked, I am freezing my tired old butt off. We normally average in the low 40’s here at this time of the year and we likely won’t get above 20 for a week or more. It is looking to be a memorable winter.
Speaking of Birdbrain Swallow, I am in a conspiracy mood today, so I will suggest that Birdbrain has been in direct contact with The Great Obfuscator himself, our very own DB. It wouldn’t be hard to do, since Dave has left many tracks for us to follow with his website, business, NC-20 involvement, and the youtube videos of himself and his beautiful real estate agent wife.
In short, I think that DB in NC is perhaps feeding horsepucky to BB in Thailand.
Keep warm by the fire. Or find a warm computer. I like your comments. Now I feel better. Your derision makes me feel playful. Like a cat playing with a bird. (gosh Im mean) I prefer Central Scrutinizer, but Great Obfuscator is nice. I feel like a baseball hitter in a slump that just got a good, clean Texas leaguer. WUWT provides manure for all deniers. If it doesn’t stick, they find gooier stuff. Heres a good one. He claims to be an IPCC expert reviewer. I almost forgot that nonsense.
Its bs. http://www.desmogblog.com/whats-an-ipcc-expert-reviewer
One thing that is universal about deniers is, no matter how many mistakes they make, they never say, hey, maybe I don’t know what I am talking about. That is, embarrassment never saves them from further humiliation. You know they are liars and cheats because when the police come they flee and then they open up their three card Monte table somewhere else looking for new fools. After his last fiasco about the earths geothermal exothermic nature proving that solar input is “tertiary”… OMG. I don’t need any convincing that his scientific abilities are somewhat lacking. I was pleasantly/unpleasantly surprised the same was true of DB. I get this elation/depression/anger over discovering their dishonesty/stupidity/arrogance all over again. I already did that dance with Swallow. Its like a girl that cuckolds. Fuggedaboudit. Just more chump change.
Like Santana Smooth
Give me your heart make it real or just forget about it.
Christopher Arcus said on January 20, 2014 at 1:26 pm: “For an interesting read, I think I finally found a stopper for all that DB sea level acceleration claptrap on jan 16, south Florida rising seas. I’m thru with Dave. It’s repetition now.” Sounds like Chris was the one going back to some thing he knows nothing at all about, sea levels change. Then on
January 22, 2014 at 5:12 pm the same clown said this about me: “Swallow has turned to sea level. Did his masters give new orders?” to which I reply that I have no master like the one Christopher Arcus serves and that is total ignorance because he has yet to provide me with the experiment that shows that CO2 in todays atmosphere can have anything to do with the earth’s climate He can’t even provide the mathematical derivation of CO2 forcing. Until he provides that experiment then he is serving some deity in the sky that is going to rain terror and petulance down on him, at any time, unless he performs the proper dances and speaks the proper nonsense to perhaps grant him absolution for having used electricity, flew on an airplane or used a vehicle, among many other thins that he claims are going to cause this impending climatic disaster, for which he is unwilling to make any sacrifices to prevent because that is the responsibility of the unwashed masses to take care of and not the “elite” believers in this hoax of anthropogenic global warming.
DUH!!!
Peter: You seem to think that this sea level rise information is so cut and dried and you are so quick to try to find fault with DR Nils-Axel Mörner. Take a look at this information and tell me what you think about why the same charts show such a different view of what is suppose to be the same thing..
Global Mean Sea Level (GMSL) using calibrated data from the TOPEX/Poseidon, Jason-1 and OSTM/Jason-2 missions. Source and further information: www.cmar.csiro.au/sealevel/
http://imos.org.au/srscalval.html
Our most recent estimate of changes in global averaged sea level since 1993 are estimated from satellite altimeter data (red) and since 1880 by combining in situ sea level data from coastal tide gauges and the spatial patterns of variability determined from satellite altimeter data (blue).
http://www.cmar.csiro.au/sealevel/
PRESENT-DAY SEA LEVEL CHANGE:
OBSERVATIONS AND CAUSES
“[81] Our understanding of long-term sea level rise has
changed considerably over the past decade. At the time of
the second IPCC assessment [Houghton et al., 1996] the
consensus estimate from the tide gauges was 1.5– 2 mm/yr,
and it was estimated that half of this was due to steric
heating and the rest was due to the melting of polar ice and
mountain glaciers. However, by the time of the third
assessment [Houghton et al., 2001] the picture was much
less clear, as the work of Levitus et al.[2000a] had shown
the steric component was only 0.5 mm/yr, and the ice
contributions were smaller still. There have been two recent
proposals to resolve this dilemma.Cabanes et al.[2001b]
have suggested that the tide gauge estimates of sea level rise
are biased high by a factor of 2 – 3 because of their poor
spatial sampling. This would imply a huge recent acceleration of sea level rise to get to the corrected rate of 3.1 mm/yr
observed by altimetry. Alternatively,Miller and Douglas
[2004] suggest that the tide gauges are not biased and that
the eustatic contribution is 1.3 mm/yr, which is in agreement with recent estimates of global freshening of the ocean
byAntonov et al.[2002] and Munk[2003]. This would
suggest a historical rate of 1.8 mm/yr, which still requires a
significant acceleration to get to the altimetric rate observed
over the last decade. “
Ok, I take it back. the stupid burns.
Exactly how I feel after 146 posts and counting with DB. Your comment made me laugh.
I will take this one for you, Peter. This is a very interesting. I looked up INQUA, which SW is a proud member of , and curiously, so is Morner. No observations yet about INQUA. However, here is what we find about Morner. Now not that I categorically reject Morner just yet, buuttt,
Mörner has written a number of works claiming to provide theoretical support for dowsing. [2] He was elected “Deceiver of the year” by Föreningen Vetenskap och Folkbildning in 1995 for “organizing university courses about dowsing…”.[3] In 1997 James Randi asked him to claim One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge, making a controlled experiment to prove that dowsing works.[17] Mörner declined the offer.[18]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nils-Axel_Mörner
Nothing like hanging your hat on a reference James Randi has questions about. Gosh, this is fun. That was easy!) Yes. In a battle of wits, some deniers come lightly armed.
Morner has made several studies dismissing sea level rise. As expected, a casual search immediately finds the first entry, Skeptical Science, debunking Morner. How much water do you need to douse this flaming horsepucky. There is an ocean of it available. 🙂 How do you do those colorful emoticons?
http://www.skepticalscience.com/Nils-Axel-Morner-wrong-about-sea-level-rise.html
Its interesting. It seems like deniers cycle. Are we getting a two tiered attack, one level outright denial, the other foot dragging? Did the Central Obfuscator give new commands? My cat is licking its chops.