In Summer of Extremes, Aging Climate Denial Cranks Double Down
Above, the nauseating John Stossel interviews climate denier Judith Curry about the “Alarmists” pushing the “anti-capitalist agenda” of climate science, all for, she says, “fame and fortune”. (this interview has every thing – “Climategate!!”)
This at a moment in history when I’ve been fielding discrete calls and emails from very conservative folk who are being jarred out of the Fox News bubble by the sheer force of reality, and asking me “Tell me more about this climate change stuff, I’m starting to get freaked out.”
Meanwhile, in Montana, a youthful group of activists won a lawsuit against the state demanding the climate concerns be addressed in new permitting processes. Judith Curry was one of the witnesses that troglodyte state officials hoped would help the defense, and Curry charged them $61,600 for preparing it. But… cue tiny violins..
The testimonies of climate scientists and other experts helped set the factual basis for the case. These experts, including a former United States Geological Survey scientist, university professors (including several from Montana), and an author of the Nobel Prize-winning report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, were all deemed “informative and credible.”
– The judge also noted that the state failed to challenge or refute testimony that “climate change is a critical threat to public health” and that the young plaintiffs “have been and will continue to be harmed by the State’s disregard of GHG pollution and climate change.”
The testimony of climate deniers, minimizers, or delayers, including Terry Anderson, was either criticized, or completely ignored. Seeley described Anderson’s testimony as “not well-supported, contained errors, and was not given weight by the Court.” Similarly, the testimony of Judith Curry, who minimizes the impacts of climate change, and disputes its severity, causes, and who has challenged the central premise of this case—the right to a ‘safe and stable climate’—ultimately wasn’t used or considered useful. According to the Daily Montanan, Curry reportedly charged the state of Montana at least $61,600 to prepare testimony, but Montana’s lawyers chose not to call her to testify. On her blog, Curry has boldly asserted that the Montana state attorneys were not competent, and claimed, “If I had been cross-examining these [climate science] witnesses, I would have shredded their testimony.”
Among the judge’s ruling were clear findings of fact rejecting the arguments of climate deniers and accepting that humans are changing the climate, climate changes are accelerating, climate changes are already worsening the environment in Montana, and that human health, recreation, agriculture, and tourism are being affected. A long section documents the threats to Montana’s freshwater systems, fisheries, glaciers, snowpack, streams, and wildlife, noting “Montana’s water resources are critically important to Youth Plaintiffs and all Montana citizens and to many people beyond the State’s borders. Montanans must have a dependable supply of clean freshwater.”
Based on its findings of fact, the court ruled that the youth plaintiffs have proven injury “resulting from the State’s failure to consider GHGs and climate change, including injuries to their physical and mental health, homes and property, recreational, spiritual, and aesthetic interests, tribal and cultural traditions, economic security, and happiness.”
Plaintiffs in the case Held v. Montana en route to the courthouse during the historic climate trial. (Photo: Our Children’s Trust/Wikipedia, CC BY 3.0)
Stossel: “Curry agrees that climate change is a problem… but it’s not a crisis”. This comes at the very end of this interview, casting doubt on every conclusion that came before. Curry got tired of being treated like a ‘rock star’ back when her work was alarming. So, is it the ‘damp rag treatment’ when Stossel does a 7′ interview on climate change with ONE climate scientist?
Curry is correct, I suppose: If you jump off a 10-story building, for 9 stories you have a problem, but you don’t yet have a crisis. When you DO have a crisis, what then will Curry do about it? Probably exit stage left.
I have noted a degree of desperation across the board, from the cranks yelling at the mud to mainstream publications like Forbes and the WSJ. There’s an uptick in denialist channels on YouTube due more to Zuck imitating Musk but none-the-less the sheer volume is up. Getting a lot more stringent, a lot more nutty too: some places my eMini is the root of all that is wrong in the world …
Addendum: elsewhere I note (@Digby’s) there is a concerted effort underway to penalize EVs. Texas just passed a $200/yr out their ass tax with a $400 upfront penalty to purchase a new EV. Applies to trucks as well as cars …
I don’t at all “like” that this is happening but gave it an upvote because I didn’t see it anywhere else. We have two cars and they are both EVs. We are lucky and live in Massachusetts. One car is a Tesla 3. The other car is a very reasonable one, a 2021 Nissan LEAF.
We also have 20 kW of solar PV and use them and use net metering to charge them. Highly recommend the plan. Works well even in snowy Massachusetts.
I’m on the South Shore for the time being, and though I found the transaction thoroughly pleasant, we didn’t get any of the tax breaks promised: in part because the car didn’t get here till January, in part because it only has a 100 mile range and finally the key ~ the on-topic ~ is apparently not enough American made parts went into it. A British built BMW.
Sure are a lot of Teslas around here, can’t help but wonder if that’s the reason there’s a 300 mile qualification, especially now it’s been shown Musk rigged the projected ranges. Moot, beside the point, it’s an example of how even in ev-friendly states we’re being penalized for not consuming fossil fuels.
There are enough on the road now to start noticing things: while I love everything about that little car (except the 100 mile range) what I love best is if you don’t know what you’re looking at you can’t tell the difference between it and any other Mini Cooper out there. I’m not running EV plates (which was a penalty at inception) so … but for the two inch yellow dot on the hatch that’s actually a stylized “E”, the same stylized “E” imprinted in the fuel-port bonnet, the lack of tailpipes and grill they are the same car …
Ought to get EV plates. We insisted on them even though there was a delay.
And no problems with the Nissan either way, and they don’t have anyone cheating their range. I think you just wanted to pick on Musk. He does sometimes make an easy target
Loading...
There is a valid reason for a modest tax on EVs to pay for roads, since they don’t pay a gas tax, but this is just the Texas Legislature being their usual reactionary jerks.
Texas gas tax is $0.20 per gallon
American drivers use an average of 656 gallons per person (probably higher for Texans).
I’d guess Texas ICE drivers pay on average a bit less that $150/year in gas tax.
It’s a bit pretentious of Curry. OCT has climate experts testifying for them, even if Curry is considered an expert. By picking on these plaintiffs all she’s doing is pretending to be a bully.
On EVs and mileage seems to me the real problem is that paying for highways with a gas tax is that it is too indirect. There ought to be a toll based upon reading license plates by camera and computer. This is the 21st century.
And if state government can’t figure out how to do that they are probably losing monies in lots of other ways too. The imaging of vehicles is too enough today to identify vehicle type and brand as well.
I’m not necessarily at odds with paying for the roads, especially around here (there are better roads in Mississippi), as long as it’s up-front and that’s what it’s all about. Texas is charging an out of their ass tax. Penalizing people for the sake of penalizing people, the whole bully culture doing it because they can get away with it. For spite; though I wouldn’t be surprised if the oil companies were putting a few of them up to it
I lost count, though, of how many different delivery ‘taxes’ I paid, from license fees to sales tax. There may be one in there but I didn’t see a road tax
On-the-other-hand, ‘Fix the Roads’ was a pitch to legalize pot
Doesn’t seem to be a problem with the turnpikes and thruways, they’re sending you bill before you get out of the car …
We traded up … from a Mercedes Smart Car. I think the Chevy Bolt (or Volt?) was a cooperative venture and I think the new eChevy is cooperative with Fiat. They sure look the same. Both, while larger than the Smart Car are inches shorter in wheelbase and a bit narrower in the cabin
The Mini is bigger than previous iterations. I had an Austin in the late sixties, early seventies, which is the traditional boxy body style most are familiar with from British rock videos. This one is about a foot larger and more rounded, more MG or Jaguar like
Leaves tailgating trucks in the dust …
Loading...
On her blog, Curry has boldly asserted that the Montana state attorneys were not competent, and claimed, “If I had been cross-examining these [climate science] witnesses, I would have shredded their testimony.”
Fifteen or maybe even ten years ago, that might have been true, but climate scientists (like geologists, paleontologists and evolutionary biologists dealing with Creationists) have learned how to respond to the gotcha questions, the equivocation, and the doubt-mongering.
THE Judith Curry??
Thanks for sketching the related Denialist Network.
Stossel: “Curry agrees that climate change is a problem… but it’s not a crisis”. This comes at the very end of this interview, casting doubt on every conclusion that came before. Curry got tired of being treated like a ‘rock star’ back when her work was alarming. So, is it the ‘damp rag treatment’ when Stossel does a 7′ interview on climate change with ONE climate scientist?
Curry is correct, I suppose: If you jump off a 10-story building, for 9 stories you have a problem, but you don’t yet have a crisis. When you DO have a crisis, what then will Curry do about it? Probably exit stage left.
Is Judith Curry still up to the same old monkey business?
https://skepticalscience.com/skeptic_Judith_Curry.htm
I have noted a degree of desperation across the board, from the cranks yelling at the mud to mainstream publications like Forbes and the WSJ. There’s an uptick in denialist channels on YouTube due more to Zuck imitating Musk but none-the-less the sheer volume is up. Getting a lot more stringent, a lot more nutty too: some places my eMini is the root of all that is wrong in the world …
Addendum: elsewhere I note (@Digby’s) there is a concerted effort underway to penalize EVs. Texas just passed a $200/yr out their ass tax with a $400 upfront penalty to purchase a new EV. Applies to trucks as well as cars …
I don’t at all “like” that this is happening but gave it an upvote because I didn’t see it anywhere else. We have two cars and they are both EVs. We are lucky and live in Massachusetts. One car is a Tesla 3. The other car is a very reasonable one, a 2021 Nissan LEAF.
We also have 20 kW of solar PV and use them and use net metering to charge them. Highly recommend the plan. Works well even in snowy Massachusetts.
I’m on the South Shore for the time being, and though I found the transaction thoroughly pleasant, we didn’t get any of the tax breaks promised: in part because the car didn’t get here till January, in part because it only has a 100 mile range and finally the key ~ the on-topic ~ is apparently not enough American made parts went into it. A British built BMW.
Sure are a lot of Teslas around here, can’t help but wonder if that’s the reason there’s a 300 mile qualification, especially now it’s been shown Musk rigged the projected ranges. Moot, beside the point, it’s an example of how even in ev-friendly states we’re being penalized for not consuming fossil fuels.
There are enough on the road now to start noticing things: while I love everything about that little car (except the 100 mile range) what I love best is if you don’t know what you’re looking at you can’t tell the difference between it and any other Mini Cooper out there. I’m not running EV plates (which was a penalty at inception) so … but for the two inch yellow dot on the hatch that’s actually a stylized “E”, the same stylized “E” imprinted in the fuel-port bonnet, the lack of tailpipes and grill they are the same car …
Ought to get EV plates. We insisted on them even though there was a delay.
And no problems with the Nissan either way, and they don’t have anyone cheating their range. I think you just wanted to pick on Musk. He does sometimes make an easy target
There is a valid reason for a modest tax on EVs to pay for roads, since they don’t pay a gas tax, but this is just the Texas Legislature being their usual reactionary jerks.
Texas gas tax is $0.20 per gallon
American drivers use an average of 656 gallons per person (probably higher for Texans).
I’d guess Texas ICE drivers pay on average a bit less that $150/year in gas tax.
It’s a bit pretentious of Curry. OCT has climate experts testifying for them, even if Curry is considered an expert. By picking on these plaintiffs all she’s doing is pretending to be a bully.
On EVs and mileage seems to me the real problem is that paying for highways with a gas tax is that it is too indirect. There ought to be a toll based upon reading license plates by camera and computer. This is the 21st century.
And if state government can’t figure out how to do that they are probably losing monies in lots of other ways too. The imaging of vehicles is too enough today to identify vehicle type and brand as well.
I’m not necessarily at odds with paying for the roads, especially around here (there are better roads in Mississippi), as long as it’s up-front and that’s what it’s all about. Texas is charging an out of their ass tax. Penalizing people for the sake of penalizing people, the whole bully culture doing it because they can get away with it. For spite; though I wouldn’t be surprised if the oil companies were putting a few of them up to it
I lost count, though, of how many different delivery ‘taxes’ I paid, from license fees to sales tax. There may be one in there but I didn’t see a road tax
On-the-other-hand, ‘Fix the Roads’ was a pitch to legalize pot
Doesn’t seem to be a problem with the turnpikes and thruways, they’re sending you bill before you get out of the car …
A small car is bad.
An EV is bad.
But an eMini?
That’s jus’ suspishus….
(I’m thinking of a Fiat 500e in my future.)
500e (we looked) is actually smaller than the Mini
As long as either of them is smaller than my Leaf, that’s what I want.
We traded up … from a Mercedes Smart Car. I think the Chevy Bolt (or Volt?) was a cooperative venture and I think the new eChevy is cooperative with Fiat. They sure look the same. Both, while larger than the Smart Car are inches shorter in wheelbase and a bit narrower in the cabin
The Mini is bigger than previous iterations. I had an Austin in the late sixties, early seventies, which is the traditional boxy body style most are familiar with from British rock videos. This one is about a foot larger and more rounded, more MG or Jaguar like
Leaves tailgating trucks in the dust …
Fifteen or maybe even ten years ago, that might have been true, but climate scientists (like geologists, paleontologists and evolutionary biologists dealing with Creationists) have learned how to respond to the gotcha questions, the equivocation, and the doubt-mongering.