You thought I was over the top when I kept showing the links between science denial and racism. Now we are seeing it slither out everywhere.
How this gets back in the bottle is anyone’s guess.
A U.S. Muslim civil rights group said on Thursday it was monitoring reports of several incidents targeting Muslims in the United States since Republican Donald Trump’s victory on Tuesday and called on the president-elect to denounce the attacks.
https://twitter.com/Susan_Hennessey/status/796855511291428864
The reports included at least two assaults on women in Islamic head scarves, as well as racist graffiti and bullying of immigrant children, according to the Council on American-Islamic Relations, or CAIR, and other civil rights groups.
“It’s the inevitable result of the mainstreaming of Islamophobia we’ve seen in recent months with the presidential campaign,” CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper said in a phone interview. “Unfortunately, it really is up to Donald Trump to repudiate this kind of bigotry.”
Trump’s campaign could not be reached for comment.
During the campaign, Trump called for banning Muslims from entering the country for security reasons. The wealthy businessman, who won his White House bid with strong support from white voters, has made calls for unity since the election.
Hooper said the president-elect’s supporters appeared to be getting a different message.
A female student in a hijab at San Diego State University was assaulted and robbed on Wednesday, the university said. The assailants were reported to have made comments to the victim in support of Trump and hurled anti-Muslim insults at her, the school said in a statement, adding the case was being investigated as a hate crime.
At San Jose State University in California, a man on Wednesday pulled at the head scarf of woman walking in a parking garage, the university said in a statement.
For those wondering how Donald Trump could ever have won a state like Michigan after it supported Barack Obama this video explains a lot.
A small group of students at Royal Oak Middle School in Detroit, Michigan broke out into chants of “Build the wall” the day after the election, according to The Detroit News.
According to a Facebook video of the event that has now gone viral, “Latino children were crying.” Dee Perez-Scott, who posted the video, said, “the taunts, the “Build that Wall” with such bullying power and hate from children to children. Just Horrifying!”
“We addressed this incident when it occurred. We are addressing it today,” Royal Oak Schools superintendent Shawn Lewis-Lakin said in a statement today. “We are working with our students to help them understand the impact of their words and actions on others in their school community,” the statement continued.
As of Thursday morning, officers from the Royal Oak Police Department have been on hand and will be throughout the day, Lt. Keith Spencer said.
Just hours after Donald Trump won 2016 presidential race, students at Maple Grove High School returned to class to find racist messages inspired by the GOP candidate.
On Wednesday, a father of a Maple Grove student posted on Facebook images of graffiti that were taken by his son.
“He does not feel safe at his own school any more,” Fred Ndip said. “I am not sure what to tell him!”
The photos show a locker door with large letters that read: “F*ck N****rs”
Other messages on the door included: “F*ck all porch monkeys,” “Whites only” and “White America.”
We knew America was divided by this election. We knew campaign tensions had carried over to America’s classrooms (just last week, we canvassed schools across Los Angeles that reported spikes in bullying — harassment that echoed the words and themes of Donald Trump’s presidential campaign).But we had no idea just how bad things would get for minority students. Or how quickly.Yesterday, reporters at The 74 started seeing scattered reports of school bullying, intimidation, and violence. We decided today to begin compiling accounts from across the country. The volume and intensity of what we’re now finding, though, has left us astonished.We’ve compiled more than 50 of these terrifying episodes, and are adding additional incidents every few minutes. You can see them all here (warning: most contain extremely disturbing language and imagery). To get notified when we’ve done a big update, please sign up to receive our newsletter.What we’re seeing: Students are terrified that they will be humiliated. Or attacked.They’re afraid their parents will be deported. Or that their families will be ostracized.They’re scared their teachers won’t be able to protect them.Meanwhile, superintendents are working to assure minority families that they will keep their schools safe for these children. Students shouldn’t hide at home.Everyone seems aware this free-floating anger and chauvinism could build and spiral out of control.Everyone but our newly elected President.
Healing begins with forgiveness.
The past few months I’ve been watching with increasing sadness the posts and comments mocking Trump supporters. 99% of these people are just regular people. A lot of them are struggling to make ends meet, they love their neighbors and their country, and they want their children to have a better future – just like many Hillary Clinton supporters. Most of them are NOT bad people.
There are Trump supporters who are racist, yes. There are racist teenagers who think it’s cool to write horrible messages on walls in their school and then tack on Trump after it, yes. There are also attacks on Trump supporters in the opposite direction:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vK7EWEkOgmY
Now, I assume the goal of this site is to correct fallacies about climate change itself, to share climate change related news, and to help fence-sitters “see the light” when it comes to climate change. Posting this racism stuff does NOT help in those goals.
Making fun of Trump supporters, or lumping all Trump supporters into the category of racist idiots, will only turn off those people more regarding climate change action. No one likes being mocked. The only way to reach these people is by speaking to them as fellow human beings, with compassion and with firmness when needed, but never with denigration.
It was deeply foolish to me whenever I saw comedy bits or other places making fun of Trump supporters. You want to make sure someone votes against what you want? Make fun of them. Their doors to actually listening to the points being made will slam shut, and they will lift a hand to your face and shut you out, and it’s simply stupid to expect otherwise.
So, consider the simple fact that throwing stones won’t win over those on the other side of the fence. Consider that it might actually turn off those on your side of the fence. But, please, please consider that it certainly won’t further the cause of combating climate change. It will only do the opposite:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/cp/opinion/election-night-2016/stop-shaming-trump-supporters
Your example is a run of the mill altercation between opposing political partisans, and does not by any stretch rise to the level of systematic racism inspired by Hillary Clinton – it is astounding that you would create a false balance there.
I will continue to challenge Trump’s “nice, definitely not racist” supporters with evidence of what his election has unleashed.
Facts:
Mr Trump built his entire campaign around a racist “birther” campaign;
he doubled and tripled down with anti latino and anti muslim rhetoric. He has been enthusiastically endorsed by the Klu Klux Klan, White Supremacist, and Neo Nazi groups.
He dithered when questioned about condemning the KKK.
His rallies have been characterized by calls for violence. He has suggested that his political opponent be shot, or imprisoned.
At the very moment Trump was speaking following election, a follower in the room felt comfortable yelling “hang Obama!”.
Now we here that the KKK has scheduled “Victory Parade” in celebration of the election.
When 5th graders are shouting “build that wall” and bullying fellow students of color, that behavior was learned somewhere – at home.
The disservice Trump has done to the world’s oldest democracy has been profound, and will be long lasting.
To claim that racism has not been a fundamental part of the Republican platform for 30 years, is delusional. Two Republican National chair, Ken Mehlman and Michael Steel, have apologized to the NAACP for the fundamentally racist “southern strategy”.
Mr Trump is the natural outgrowth of that racism.
I haven’t even started on his cooperation with a hostile foreign power that was actively undermining our election process – something the Press seems determined not to deal with, but which will not be forgotten here.
You are welcome to post all you like, that’s what we do here – and I will continue to call out ignorance and hatred for what it is, and hold up a mirror to all those “nice people” who brought this nightmare upon the world.
Peter – the election is over, man. Continually harping on how he and his supporters are racist will not help your attempts to combat climate change. The goal the next four years should be to peel away Trump’s supporters with calm reason and facts. Turning into a Drudge Report, or TMZ, version of environmental slash Trump is Hitler news will only dissuade many people. It’s cherry-picking the worst while ignoring the whole. Most people will see that, and will write this blog off as irrational and sensationalist – and they’ll equate anything you have to say about climate change with the same light.
It’ll sure help those who are already on your side, though. It’s easy to demonize the other, and to put oneself in a bubble where only those within it have good intentions, and everyone outside it has bad intentions – but by doing so, you destroy your own ability to reach outside that bubble, you harden the shell of that bubble, and you repel those who might be willing to listen to the issue of climate change.
Half of the United States voted against Hillary Clinton. Half of eligible voters in the United States did not vote. Figure out how to reach them. You don’t need to post stuff that will only appeal to the 25% of Americans who voted for Clinton. You’ve already got them. Why is this so hard to understand?
(I did not vote for Trump, nor am I a Trump supporter).
You cannot reason with unreasonable people.
75% of Americans are unreasonable? Because they didn’t vote for Clinton? And so, they are all unreasonable, and forever so, and you hope to effectively combat climate change?
I’m not talking about the handful of arseholes out there. They exist. THEY don’t matter, and right, they can’t be reasoned with. I’m suggesting that maybe there are a lot of people out there who didn’t support Hillary, and those who actually voted for Trump, who aren’t monsters, and maybe harping on this racist sheet will only serve to turn them off from the cause of combating climate change.
BTW, here is the video from Royal Oaks Middle School:
https://www.facebook.com/immigrationtalk.mexicanamerican/videos/vb.100000827232389/1144505275587036/?type=2&theater
None of the kids in the video that are visible are chanting. There are always bad eggs, and then there are the rest. Just because they voted for Trump, or they distrust Hillary, or even if they grew up with racist parents, they aren’t all “deplorables” (which btw, that comment cost Clinton a lot of votes), and if you have any hope about reaching them about climate change, you need to learn how to talk to them as humans instead of as demons.
jimbills dismisses the middle school video as well. Yup, there simply can’t be anything significant about something that has been viewed a mere 7,500.000 times. It’s more than a “handful”of assholes out there, and all too many of them are showing up among school age kids. They are ALL inspired or at least emboldened by Trump—-they are BAD people doing BAD things, and dealing with their acceptance and understanding of climate change is way down the list of problems the Trump presidency is going to bring on.
Along with racism, jimbills is apparently ignorant of the behavior of kids in school and particularly in school cafeterias. During the 23 years I spent in school administration, the cumulative hours I spent on “cafeteria duty” (we affectionately called it “swine herding”) added up to 7+ solid months of 40 hour weeks. (I did that math in my head one day out of boredom while standing cafeteria duty). Consider me an “expert witness”.
What you see in that video very likely would have led to fistfights in a high school, and if it had happened on my watch, it would have been instantly CRUSHED, with the perpetrators physically removed from the cafeteria and dragged off to be severely disciplined. I would have RUN to deal with the chanters. School is supposed to be a sanctuary for kids, especially those who are vulnerable because of class or race or economic standing. It angers me to see you minimize what occurred—-your ignorance and arrogance is appalling.
And those poor downtrodden Trump supporters are popping up all over the news—-once again , good people doing bad things. From just one source:
In Illinois, White university students put on blackface and posed in front of a Confederate Flag to celebrate Trump’s victory. [1]
In Philadelphia, vandals scrawled Nazi and pro-Trump messages in city neighborhoods. [2]
In Kansas, a high school suspended two White boys wearing Trump shirts for ripping a hijab off a fellow student. When asked why they did it, one boy answered, “Because she’s about to get kicked out anyway and we won.” [3]
In Delaware, a Black woman filling her gas tank was approached by a group of four White men. One said to her, “How scared are you, you black b****? I should just kill you right now, you’re a waste of air.” Another showed her his firearm and said, “You’re lucky there’s witnesses or else I’d shoot you right here.” [4]
In California, a young woman was approached by an older man who said, “I can’t wait until Trump asks us to rape your people and send you back over the biggest damn wall we’re going to build. Go back to hell, wet back.” [5]
Also in California, a gay man at a bar was approached by a group of men who shouted at him, “We got a new President you f***ing f****ts,” before assaulting him in a nearby alley. [6]
Educators from across the country are reporting rising levels of anxiety and fear among their students of color. In Utah, two parents reported seeing two kindergartners tell a Hispanic classmate that he would be going back to Mexico after Trump’s victory. [7]
And jimbills is worried about alienating them?
Nor can you fight a war with half measures and denial of who the enemy is. Jimbills is again navel-gazing and intellectualizing. Can he have forgotten what happened two days ago and that a minority of the voters have put in the White House a certifiably sick, totally unqualified, and downright dangerous individual that may destroy the country in the short term and the whole planet in the longer term if he follows through on his climate “policies”?
IMO, Crock and the other “sane” climate change sites need to double down on their truth-telling—and not just the hard science, but the nuances in politics, sociology, psychology, and economics that are holding back progress. The facts are often ugly—we will not “peel away Trump’s supporters with calm reason and facts” because they don’t respond to facts, are not calm, and don’t reason.
PS to jimbills Who DID you vote for? And why? I voted for Hillary, a week early, and would have voted for her again on election day if I could have gotten away with it.
DOG – I answered, but I think my response is held up. I’ll wait and see.
Re: DOG: November 11, 2016 at 12:30 am
And now personal insults. Nice.
How’s this Marine?:
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/11/02/survey-career-oriented-troops-favor-trump-over-clinton.html
74% of the Devil Dogs supported Trump. They’re all ignorant racists?
I’m not worried about alienating the people in your examples. I’m worried about alienating the people NOT in your examples.
“And now personal insults?” You started it with the “wind whistling through the ears”, and GFYS is not really an insult, not are all the accusations of inadequacy I have made like “you just don’t get it”. They are just perceived truths. Stop whining.
And you need to go to bed and get some rest, because I think you’re getting fatigued.
“How’s this Marine?”, you ask? I will reply that it was actually pretty F-king stupid of you to cite this “survey”. Or did you not really read it because you’re tired and didn’t notice this (the most important part of any report of survey results)? Note the parts I have highlighted in caps—-do you have enough of an understanding of survey methodology to realize that this survey is meaningless? It’s analogous to the Oregon Petition on climate change.
“Survey Methodology”
“Military.com conducted a VOLUNTARY ONLINE SURVEY of readers from Oct. 24 through Oct. 31. The questionnaire was posted on the website and distributed to readers via newsletters, a mobile alert and on social media.
A total of 17,149 respondents completed the questionnaire, the vast majority of whom were veterans. Except where noted in this story, SURVEY DATA WERE FILTERED for the 1,313 responses from active-duty, Guard and Reserve members WHO SAID THEY PLAN TO VOTE
The sample is NOT A PERFECT REPRESENTATION OF THE MILITARY AS A WHOLE. It includes a higher percentage of airmen, soldiers, officers and non-commissioned officers, and a lower percentage of women, minorities and junior enlisted personnel than are in the force.
However, the high number of NCOs and mid-grade officers who responded represent the more senior and CAREER-ORIENTED MEMBERS OF THE MILITARY”.
And you have the balls to say “74% of the Devil Dogs supported Trump. They’re all ignorant racists?” in a half-assed attempt to score a point.
Have you ever served? If so, which branch? And how many Marines do you know? How many policemen do you know? The inadequacies of this survey aside, do you know how conservative they tend to be and why?
And while we’re asking questions, are you ever going to tell us who you voted for and why? As I said, I voted for Hillary, and I’ve removed all the Hillary and Vote Dem stickers from the van. Don’t want to attract any trump supporters.
Jimbills
You state below: “There are always bad eggs, and then there are the rest. Just because they voted for Trump, or they distrust Hillary, or even if they grew up with racist parents, they aren’t all ‘deplorables’ (which btw, that comment cost Clinton a lot of votes), and if you have any hope about reaching them about climate change, you need to learn how to talk to them as humans instead of as demons.”
Clinton did not say that all of Trump’s supporters were deplorables. That is how Trump and his people retell things. What she said was:
According to several studies it would appear that Clinton was actually being generous:
Posting the video clip titled “Hillary Clinton supporters beat helpless homeless woman protecting Trump’s Hollywood Star” is more than “astounding”, it’s downright moronic. First, no “beating” took place—-there was not even much touching, except for some inadvertent body contact while scrabbling over the woman’s papers. Was she bullied? Yes, verbally, but once she laid on the ground, the operative mood was “don’t touch her”—-IMO, if it was a Trump crowd, the likelihood that she would have gotten stomped is high. (And one has to question the mental health of a homeless woman who would want to “protect” The Hump’s freaking star on a sidewalk).
JB says 99% of these people (Trump supporters) are just regular people and that most of them are NOT bad people. I would quarrel with the 99% particularly, and even the use of “most”, considering that they are responsible for electing the “nightmare” that is Trump, and that is not the act of “good” people.
I would also quarrel with JB’s naive assertion that “posting this racism stuff” does not help Crock meet its goals. Racism, sexism, xenophobia, science denial, and climate change denial all go hand in hand, and they are where the Repugnants live—-polls indicate that only ~14% of those on the right think climate change is a big problem, as opposed to ~66% of of those on the left.
JB is worried that we won’t be able to “convince” them and that we’re slamming door in their faces? LMAO! I won’t dispute that they have some good reasons for being angry, but they are basically “unconvinceable” for many reasons. THEY are the ones slamming the door on so much of what this country stands for by the way they voted, and that includes dealing with climate change.
Reading a great book that illustrates racism in all its aspects by exploring what went on in Forsythe County GA in 1912. “Blood at the Root: A Racial Cleansing in America”, Patrick Phillips, Norton, 2016. A real eye opener for anyone who wants to understand racism in America. I suspect jimbills would benefit from reading it—it doesn’t sound like he has much first hand experience with racism and racists.
Sigh. Again, looking at racism helps combat climate change, how?
And I’m rather proud to say that I don’t have much experience with racists. I am white, so I haven’t experienced racism towards myself, and I know I am fortunate in that. I grew up with good and decent parents, I went to schools where everyone was equal, and I have a loving wife who shares my strong views that every person on this Earth should be treated with dignity and respect unless they prove repeatedly that they aren’t worthy of it – in which case ignoring them is usually the wiser course instead of inflaming them.
I don’t see how reading a book will give me first-hand experience. Although, I have already studied U.S. history extensively.
Now, it’s not right to ignore actions that Trump does in the upcoming years. It’s fair game. And it’s especially fair game here as it applies to climate change. But I fail to see how cherry-picking and highlighting the bad eggs in Trump’s supporters does anything to win the hearts and minds of those who supported him towards the issue of climate change. It’ll only turn them off, and you’ll only be echoing the same things to yourselves, forever furious at those who aren’t in your chamber, even though you carefully built its walls.
When are you going to stop this intellectualizing and gish galloping and recognize that it may be game over for combating climate change because of Trump’s election. Every blog in existence that is run by people with good hearts and good minds should be talking about Trump right now, no matter what the blog’s special interest is. If Trump succeeds in carrying out his crazy “contract with America”, no blog on any topic will matter much anyway, and climate change is at more risk than most.
You’re proud to say that you don’t have much experience with racists? You haven’t experienced racism towards yourself? etc. etc. etc? Lord love a duck, but all that is mindless, self-satisfied, and ignorant BS. Why are you running your mouth here when you have NO idea what you’re talking about?
I taught in an inner-city school with a large low-income minority population in NJ, and walked right into the aftermath of desegregation when I moved to VA and became a school administrator. I have stood between groups of black and white teenagers that wanted to kill each other, and walked the halls with uniformed policemen to prevent that. I have spent countless hours in group discussions involving black and white kids and parents as we worked through the race problem. And we eventually made some good progress in Fairfax County VA. Trump’s election is just going to take things backward,
Of course reading a book will not give you “first-hand experience”, but you need to get educated somehow. That book will make the hair on your neck stand up, and I’m sure that your “extensive” study of U.S. history did not include anything like it.
And yet, you’re missing my point entirely. Good night.
You had a point? Goodnight indeed!
“world’s oldest democracy” Hmm, I guess it’s all in the definition. NZ had universal suffrage 27 years before the US!
I’m with you. 👍
FYI, lest anyone be under the impression that I’m in favor of brushing the moronic and indecent behavior of Trump supporters under the rug, I’d like to state that ‘I’m with you’ was intended for greenman.
Very good. Count yourself as a proud team member.
I’m not suggesting this stuff should be brushed under the rug. That Royal Oaks video already has 7 million views. By tomorrow it will probably have double that number. It’s not brushed under the rug.
I question the wisdom of hand-picking and focusing on these things on a blog intent on combating climate change. It. Won’t. Help.
You all are so wrapped up in your own clubhouse that you can’t see it. Fine.
I think this NYT piece is more substantive:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/cp/opinion/election-night-2016/the-majesty-of-trump
Vox, sweet.
I’ve been warning you guys against building this echo chamber, but do what you want.
The Nytimes piece appears quite superficial. About Trump ask Michael Moore. Or Bernie Sanders, who already explained it last year. (Sorry, wont dig out links, time for bed and shut da box)
That video seems to be of a put-up job to me, the central character is an actor as could be key members of the crowd. IOW a form of false flag attack.
I am a regular visitor to a very large facebook “community” page where I live. Whenever they post a meme or story about climate change, they inevitably get some nonsense comments from a small number of climate change deniers. What I am finding more and more is when I check the timelines of those people, where they have it set to public, I don’t have to scroll far to find racist right wing rhetoric, be it a meme or a news story vilifying asylum seekers or a petition to alienate a religious minority. It is at the point where I can get a hit like that nearly 100% of the time. The reverse is true too. The people expressing racist or xenophobic sentiments inevitably have climate denial propaganda in their timelines. From my point of view in this context, climate denial and racism are inextricably linked through right wing ideology.
Climate change deniers are a small minority, and so are deep-seated racists. They probably do intersect quite a bit.
You won’t reach them. You want to reach the other, and much larger percentage, of Trump’s support? Stop labeling them with whole cloth as racists.
But, let’s say many are racists. Drive in the mountains of Virginia, for instance, and one will see plenty of Confederate flags. Most of them grew up in a racist culture, raising little racists along the way. This won’t change any time soon.
Now, how does harping on their racism, or Trump’s racism, help the issue of climate change?
Sorry, but ignorance is ignorance and comes in many forms and I don’t accept the premise that the people who voted for Trump was made up by a small minority of racists. By voting for Trump the, all those people endorsed his racism and ignorance. The 50% of people who couldn’t be bothered to turn out and vote also endorsed his racism and ignorance. By refusing to take a stance their endorsement is implicit. The link between climate change denial and racism is obvious when you consider which people in the world are going to be the worst affected by it and the willfully ignorant racists know it.
Well then. By believing so, you will never reach those people, and that 50%, plus the 50% of the electorate that didn’t bother to vote, will always be lost to combating climate change.
Have you actually talked with any Trump supporters? Like, a real one-on-one, face-to-face, discussion about politics and why they supported him? Or, is everyone around you in your bubble, and all you know about Trump supporters is what you gather from the media and the internet? Because you seem pretty ignorant of those you are wholesale labeling as ignorant and racist.
We’re talking 60 million people here.
My “well said” was directed to Mike not jimbills.
Don’t know about Mike, but I have talked to a lot of Trump supporters, and there is really no “talking” to them. Three guys I have known for over 20 years have severed relations, more likely will but I don’t know it yet, and a couple of my neighbors are barely speaking to me.
You want to talk in generalities and use the big numbers, and simply refuse to accept that it’s not the numbers and the musing about what they mean, but the FACT that he got elected and what that means that is so disturbing.
We’re talking ONE person here.
You are here claiming we don’t get it but it would seem you really don’t get it yourself. I don’t need to justify myself but I will. I HAD many friends that voted for Trump. I spoke to ALL of them at length and am sad that I did. I cannot abide racism and ignorance and I discovered it in ALL of those now former friends. That said, given your self-proclaimed expertise on all things climate blogs, perhaps you could start your own. Anyway…whatevs. You the man….or not. Later.
I know a good deal of Trump supporters quite closely. The racism among those Trump voters I know ranges from mild, supporting birther-ism long after it was clear that the foreign looking/sounding guy was legit, to more overt racism stated at home that black people are generally lazy or that foreigners of any type should be met with suspicion or just leave entirely. These folks all deny climate change as well and any reference to the Nat. Academy of Sciences recommendations are met with suspicion. My personal experiences with this correlation align with the research that has been conducted on the subject. There looks to be a correlation between support for Trump and racism in an individual. More ardent Trump support, more ardent racism might just be a fact we have to deal with.
Now, as far as climate change tactics in all this? I think one can have different opinions on how to tackle the situation, sure. Jim, you have one opinion on the best approach that I think we would for the most part agree, just there seems to be quibbling on the margins among some here. I think you may be misinterpreting Peter’s intentions. I don’t think this is an indictment that all Trump supporters should stay away from climate activism. I think we would all be tickled pink if Trump were just trolling the people of Earth with the whole hoax stuff and converted his flock to science-loving nerds and implemented the bigliest, yugest, most good climate policy ever. If in some cosmic possibility that happened, we would be shocked, but hey why not go with it.
Now, in tactical reality, I suspect you may be misinterpreting Peter’s intentions. I don’t think that anybody here is against taking the scalpel to remove the non-racist portion of the Trump camp. I think Peter’s evidence on this front is effective in the argument against denial if framed as “if climate denial has a significant fraction of these racist fellow travelers, how valid is the denial viewpoint?”. The follow-up answer is, not any validity, really, factually or morally. Personally, I would try to get everybody involved in the fight to reduce emissions according to the scientific timeline, racist or not. We can probably save convincing the racists for last, though, lol. That being said, the polls show that there are still a non-trivial fraction of non-Trump folks that are somewhat unsure on the issue. Tactically, going after that low-hanging fruit first is probably better for gains that will bear effective solutions.
Well said, although I doubt you’ll penetrate jimbills’ “border wall”—–he has worked so very hard to construct it while the rest of us have been looking at the big picture and talking about being scared s**tless by what Trump means for the war against climate change.
Well said!
I live in the Piedmont of VA not 30 miles from the White House and guess what? Confederate flags are all too common here too, as well as in lots of other places in the country, including many places that were never “confederate”. It’s a symbol of racism, and the fact that it still flies so many years after the death of the confederacy. You really don’t get the racism thing, do you?
I’m hearing the sound of wind whistling through your ears all the way here in a rural town of Texas. Imagine that!
Jeepers L. Pineapple, man, I’m not saying racism doesn’t exist, or that it’s not a major factor in American life. I’m saying that it won’t help to cherry-pick racist acts on blog meant to combat climate change. All it’s doing is puffing up the shirts of those in your clubhouse (look at us! look at them! boo!!!!), repelling those who might be milling around your clubhouse (they hear your boos and turn around to the other clubhouse), and bolstering those in the opposing clubhouse.
All this time you’ve been fighting with dunderhead deniers on this blog, and you haven’t figured out you’re actually feeding them?
You’re hearing the sound of wind whistling through my ears all the way here in a rural town of Texas.
Much more elegant than how he would say it, but that IS a rather Trump-like statement. In the spirit of our president-elect, I will be vulgar and reply GFYS!
Reaching people is a difficult art– especially when the media they watch never raise the issue of climate change– also, of course they’re attracted to political figures who not only dismiss it, but make wild accusations of fraud and receive money and other support from professional climate deniers. Not saying reaching these people can’t be done eventually, but fussing (as Jim does) about how nasty those of us who recognize the danger are being to these poor people seems like missing the point to me. Sometimes– when the well’s been well and truly poisoned, that is– the flies aren’t interested, not even in honey.
How nasty you are to these people will directly affect how well you reach these people. It’s the ENTIRE point.
Again, I guess I can say this until I’m blue in the face, because no one is listening, but I’m not talking about reaching actually racist morons. I’m talking about how one can best reach those who might have supported Trump during this election.
Do you really think 60 million people are the poisoned well? Or is it a portion of that? If it is a portion, shouldn’t the effort be made to appeal to them? Or, should we just throw more poison down the well?
A site that keeps harping on how Trump and his supporters are evil racists will have zero appeal to those people. Less than that – it will repel them – and any hope of reaching them, and by extension earning votes and support to help combat climate change outside of your group that already supports it, is lost.
This ain’t rocket surgery, people.
jimbills,
You are telling us to ignore the very real danger that Trump poses to minorities because this is a climate blog????
That is, in a word, ridiculous.
The fact is that is the responsibility of ALL to speak out. It does not matter whether it’s on a climate blog or a political blog. Suggesting that it’s off-topic and unlikely to reach offended Trump supporters is just disingenuous. Really.
Further, suggesting that greenman should not speak out against Trump’s rascist supporters [who are far more numerous than you evidently believe], or his ‘normal’ supporters will not give credence to his writings on climate change could not be further from reality.
Fact. His supporters are primarily far right conservatives who are also climate deniers. But let’s pretend that none of them are rascists and misogynists, et al.
Do you also believe that they are people who understand that we are existentially threatened by climate change and yet chose to vote for someone who has said he will do nothing about the matter? Who appointed a denier to head up the transition team for the EPA?
My point is that not only is every decent human being obligated to speak out against the haters, but that people who voted for Trump did so knowing he is a climate denier and a rascist and a xenophobic idiot and a damn misogynist pig.
Why am I trying?
Because you enjoy conflict?
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/11/10/trump-team-takes-shape-and-its-not-pretty
Eh. Mebbe a little. Pretty sure DOG does, too.
But my question was why was I trying to make a point that no one here cares to listen to? I’m trying to help, and it’s viewed as enemy action. I suppose I’m being foolish, so adios.
I don’t really “enjoy” conflict but I don’t back away from it either. I spent a professional career as a “sheep dog”, and I’ve continued that into retirement on blogs I’ve frequented. You have often made good points in your comments on Crock, and I have often agreed with you, but IMO you just don’t get it on this thread.
PS Many of the blogs I have frequented are loaded with “Trump supporter” types, and I’m proud to say I’ve hd huge fights with many of them and been banned from several, including being personally banished from one by someone who was once a candidate for vice-president of the U.S. on the Libertarian Party ticket.
VERY well said. I have been trying to make the same points to JB, but his perceptual screens are clogged with his self-satisfied BS.
I’ve never thought you were over the top in anyway at all Peter, a very rational and reasonable individual who cares and gives a great example on climate science to a half hearted person like me.
I left the U.K in the 80’s feeling rather alienated by the fervor and changes to the British culture shaped by Maggie Thatcher and her government. I see reactions in the U.S now similar to the U.K still reeling after the BREXIT vote, and have been shocked by the recent language and crude (Cruel) racist jokes by some friends ? I have known since early childhood.
There are parallels in recent history, god forbid, we must never ever go there again. Sometimes I regret leaving the U.K like a rat jumping ship, but am happy in my new abode where I have been accepted. This is a very rocky time but the change is in place and there is light at the end of the tunnel.
The late Leonard Cohen captures something in “Democracy” as only he can with his obscure poetry. God help us all. His song Partisan reminds me where and when I came into the world in post war Germany, and where extremes and racism coupled with Nationalist rhetoric can lead. Don’t go there U.S.
More hate:
https://shawglobalnews.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/wellsville-dugout.jpg
That is exactly why I agree with DOG in his responses to the flaccid whining of jimbills. Take note of things like this jim before you wake up one day in a totalitarian state.
Remember this jim:
And remember the false flag attacks that cemented that dreadful regime in place — the parallels are too obvious to miss I would have thought. Note the shoes as they drop.
Lionel – stereotyping and demonizing half of the electorate based on the actions of a handful of people contributes to the further polarization of a society, and these are the things that help lead to a totalitarian state.
Trying to have a level head, and trying to reach out to 60 million Americans instead of pitch and tar them, is apparently flaccid. I don’t support racism and never will. But I also think opening the doors to communication is always better to healing a society than closing them.
I’ve tried to warn you all that your actions on these matters will only serve to further close those doors, and apparently no one here agrees. That’s a shame, but there it is.
jimbills is nothing if not persistent in his futiie attempts to convince anyone that he’s right. Must be a major blow to his ego that he is meeting with so little success.
And look at the knots he has twisted in the logic of his mindless repetition (with small changes) of the same old wrongheaded BS
Like “…demonizing half of the electorate based on the actions of a handful of people contributes to the further polarization of a society, and these are the things that help lead to a totalitarian state…”. WOW, superb hyperbole and BS there. And now we who have better sense than jimbills are “helping lead to a totalitarian state”?
I am getting out my brown shirt and swastika armband right after I finish this comment. We need to form a new group—-how about “People Concerned About Climate Change Who Are Closet Nazis”? Let’s go burn some books and smash some windows! Wheee!
We’ve tried to warn jimbills that, although we might agree with his basic ideas about educating, reaching out, and concentrating on climate change, he is WAY off track because of his inability to recognize the overwhelming and immediate problem the country faces with Trump and the “good” people who support him, but he has closed the doors to his mind and won’t listen. That’s a shame, but there it is.
I’ve had the same post not get posted 3-4 times now (and with different wording and even timing from when I posted them). It doesn’t have any curse words, so I don’t know why it’s failed, but it contains my last thoughts on this post.
I can’t write more if what I mean to say gets filtered somehow. Maybe they’ll get posted later. Best wishes.
WordPress has been goofy all week. I wonder if the Russians are hacking it to hold down the discussion of the election of their puppet as president? I too had messages disappear for extended periods or forever, and had one massive simultaneous dump of messages into my inbox. Don’t give up—–we are all waiting eagerly for your “last word”.
PS Has everyone heard that Sarah Palin is high on Trump’s list for Secretary of the Interior? Words fail me.
Wow, first time I have caught wind of that. Yikes. Hopefully nothing goes awry with the National Park Service. Those parks are some of the most valuable treasures in all of the USA.
This might more likely bode ominous for the Bureau of Land Management, though. With an agreeable Congress, I imagine quite a lot of public BLM land could be sold away.
Oh no… I just just thought about ANWR. That is a real possibility. Hopefully, we just get a limited leasing of the land and not a wholesale surrender of it.
Yes, the more one thinks about it, the more ominous the potential impacts become. How about Giuliani for attorney general? Remember his spittle-flecked speeches about locking Hillary up? How much more politicized will the FBI become under Rudi?
Look up some of his other potential cabinet and agency head choices—–anti-science for the EPA (until he disbands it), fossil fuel folks for Energy, hedge fund types for Treasury (to hasten the next financial disaster) and so on.
There may be some small hope, however. The WashPost today reported that the Large Orange Turd is pulling back on some of his more insane promises and sounding a bit more presidential. Now that the dog has caught the garbage truck (that he never thought he would catch), he’s making some small sense. If that continues, his “supporters” will join his detractors in the streets. Riots anyone?
Yes, Myron Ebell for EPA and the fossil fuel lobbyist for DOE just seems like a huge intentional stick in the eye to climate scientists and energy tech types. The EPA can’t be disbanded yet, though, or am I wrong on that? Support for EPA dismemberment in Congress wouldn’t be strong enough to surpass a filibuster, right? I have seen a few supporters who could be convinced that the EPA has to go… and some alternative media sources could be willing to make a case for the Trump folks to follow enthusiastically.
Just in case, jimbills doesn’t recognize this setting, it’s a photo of the back of a baseball field dugout, probably one located at a high school or middle school.
It’s highly likely that those “good” Trump supporters that did this (and who jimbills loves so much) are students at the school (or were until they dropped out or got expelled).
The poor maintenance of the facility as evidenced by the peeling paint on the fascia and the poor drainage shown by the puddles, would make one think that it’s in one of those poorer “forgotten” places in the country.
Welcome to Trump’s America. Similar things are happening allover the country. NO VA recently had a similar defacement of an old black church that was being restored for use as a museum and community center.
Unconvinced.
I am unconvinced that there is a measurable upsurge in racist incidents.
I am unconvinced that the incidents can be directly attributed to Trump’s win.
It could even be that some groups have found their champion in the picture that the liberal press has painted of Trump, and are about to find out he doesn’t support their behavior.
Withholding judgment until later…
Withholding judgment, are you? You are likely to be doing that for a very long time, since “judgment” requires a brain that operates at a high enough level to gather facts and rationally analyze them. You don’t have one, and will need to grow one or rent one. You come to Crock only to indulge your narcissistic belief that you are an “intellectual” by spouting nonsense.
I will withhold judgment on whether Trump will rise to the HUUUUUGE need to NOT support the behavior of his “supporters”. I have consulted my MAGIC 8-BALL and asked it if there is any chance he will do that. It replied:
Don’t count on it
Ask again later
Outlook not so good
Cannot predict now
Very doubtful
It is obvious that my MAGIC 8-BALL is far smarter than you are, dweeby. Why don’t you let it take over for you? Go stand in front of your mirror and admire yourself there instead of bothering us.
abusive ad hominem troll …
All the “evidence” so far is anecdotal, and you have no idea what the baseline numbers are for incidents of this sort that are now all being attributed to the Trump event. Present some scientific statistics
… you insipid ogress
Go away, you narcissistic moron! You waste our time.
What an extraordinary post and collection of comments!! Your headline suggested a link between “science denial and racism” which was why I read the post, but it turned out that this was not the subject of the post at all. Instead it was a hysterical, prejudiced, irrational, outburst of fury akin to a two-year-old’s tantrum at being denied something he/she wanted. It is just the sort of thing we have experienced here in the UK since 23rd June.
There are at least two important lessons to be learned from this:
1) that the Elites who support the EU and Clinton (and universally the doctrine of global warming) are hysterical, prejudiced, and irrational and that explains how they have been duped for 30 years now into holding a fixation with a non-science and into mindless excoriation of those who hold to a different opinion.
2) That these people have a belief in “democracy” which mirrors that of the original “democrats” of the city states of ancient Greece – that all citizens should have a vote but only the rich and powerful qualify as citizens. In the UK the bigwigs of the Labour Party were thrown into paroxysms of fury when the the party members elected a leader the big-wigs despised, obviously believing that the party belonged to them, not to the members. Similarly, when the majority of voters chose to exit the EU, the whole Elite class and their hangers-on erupted in disbelieving anger that their wild threats had been disregarded by “ordinary people” and we have even had three top judges join in with a judgment that is law made up on the hoof in defiance of all previous practice. Now in the USA we are seeing the same – a violent rejection of the rights of “ignorant” people to choose the government of the nation – a very far cry from “of the people, by the people, and for the people.”
To return to your misleading headline I should mention that I am not a “science denier” but one who denies that there is any genuine science behind your religious fever for belief in global warming. Climate change is coming, yes, but in the opposite direction to your expectation. As for racism, I should mention that I am a white man married to a beautiful black African lady and we have three mixed-race children of whom I am immensely proud. So your link between racists and global warming doubters is as illusionary as the link between global warming and man-made carbon dioxide.
Yes, it seems that you can turn over almost any rock nowadays and find a denier denying that he is a denier and spouting deluded and ignorant bullshit. And the bigger a denier they are, the bigger their inability to see that they are. PIS’s last paragraph says it all.
My sympathies to the “beautiful black African lady and their three mixed-race children” of whom he is immensely proud—-I wonder if they will be proud of him and his ilk 20 years from now. And I wonder why he had to throw “mixed race” in there? She and they are in the same unfortunate boat as Melania and Barron (who has the added great misfortune to look exactly like his father). Again, sympathies to all of them.
And “the link between racists and global warming doubters is as illusionary (sic) as the link between global warming and man-made carbon dioxide”? And that is TRUTH just because ONE moronic denier has married a black woman? LMAO at the huge logic fail in that statement.
Peter Irvin Smith describes himself as
“one who denies that there is any genuine science behind your religious fever for belief in global warming.”
and also writes:
“Climate change is coming, yes, but in the opposite direction to your expectation.”
The world is awash in data and analysis that indicates otherwise.
I must conclude, on this topic at least, that you are a wilfully ignorant wanker.
He is a perfect example of a WIFI—a willfully ignorant functional idiot.
Not any time soon, for with that one statement you demonstrate your ignorance and prejudice about the subject of anthropogenic global warming and climate change. Go look at the Met’ Office site for one and discover how and why you are wrong. After that try Real Climate, Skeptical Science, Climate Central or read the IPCC reports backed up by hundreds of scientific studies.
Sheesh, why don’t you sign up for the GWPF? No need, I suspect for you already have!