Dana Nuccitelli has updated his graph showing how many times arctic sea ice has “recovered” in the last few decades, while continuing its long-term downward trend.
We can be sure climate deniers will continue to tell us about sea ice “recovery” even when we see open water across the arctic some time in the next couple decades, if not sooner.
Natural factors play a role in the extent of the Arctic sea ice as well, especially changes in weather conditions on a year-to-year basis. For example, 2012 shattered the previous record low Arctic sea ice extent because on top of the human influences, the weather conditions were ripe for a dramatic decline that year. In 2013 and 2014, weather conditions were closer to normal, so they didn’t break the 2012 record. As a result, the usualsuspects have declared that Arctic sea ice is now “expanded” compared to two years ago.
The flaw in that argument is illustrated in this animated graphic I created. (above)
Average July through September Arctic sea ice extent 1870–2008 from the University of Illinois (Walsh & Chapman 2001 updated to 2008) and observational data from NSIDC for 2009–2014.
uknowispeaksense Says: ” anyone want to claim the Piri map as evidence for an ice free Antarctic?”
Here is some sense for you guys:
FACT #1: if is something written on paper or map; doesn’t mean is the truth, paper doesn’t object lies to be printed on it – paper can tolerate anything – reason paper is used even in the toilet.
FACT #2: on Antarctic, Arctic and northern part of Greenland the temp gets colder than -75C (103F)
FACT #3: therefore: planet to warm up by 75C is not good enough, because on zero centigrade will be still frozen – therefore: the planet needs to warm up by 71C, for all the ice to ”start” melting.
FACT #4: now in New York city gets to 35C (95F)
If you ad 71C on the top of 35C (95F): 71C + 35C = 106C (222,8F)
That will make the temp in New York city 12,8F above WATER BOILING POINT
The Greenman is telling you how hot will the polar caps will become; BUT, you ask him: –”how cold Antarctic and northern part of Greenland get NOW.
Proves my point that: polar caps were never ice free for at least 3,75 billion years – therefore: if New York gets 12F above WATER BOILING POINT- you and Al Gore will not worry about the polar ice, also, the tropics and subtropics will be 22F above water boiling point. Arithmetic is the most reliable science – calculate yourself!
Some excellent mathturbation there allbeit based on nonsense and logical fallacies. I’ve subsequently printed out your comment onto paper and used it to line the bottom of my birdcage.
In one of the few bits of truth in his rant, stefan states “paper doesn’t object lies to be printed on it”. That’s obvious, because paper is inanimate and has no “feelings”. If paper DID have any consciousness, it would probably object more strenuously to you printing stefan’s insane garbage on it than to 6 inches of bird poop being deposited on it. (And you are cruel to subject your birds to stefan’s rantings—-PETA would not approve).
Old boy; what I comment is ALWAYS, everything 24 carat proofs.
Gold shines even when covered by bird dropings
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No, stefan, Gold does NOT shine even when covered by bird droppings. If it was covered, you couldn’t even see it, because its poop-covered surface is not reflecting any light, and we see things because of the light they reflect. In fact, all we could be sure of is that there’s a pile of your “poop”, and any “gold” that it covers exists only in your fantasies.
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uknowispeaksense , if you are sure that your bird is more intelligent and objective than you = evolution has played a joke on you….
Better ask somebody more intelligent and objective than you, to explain to you about all my real proofs. What I write is all scientific; everything can be proven now – no need to wait 100y and see that you have being duped by Mann, Al and Hansen!
Sure thing buddy. Just direct me to your paper and we’ll advance our little chat from there. In the meantime, feel free to enrol in the “understanding science” module I teach at university, and learn about the concept of “proof” as it applies to science. You may learn how much of your ignorance you have put on display.
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The Piri map is proof positive of an ice-free Antarctic. It contains mapping data given to humans by the ancient astronauts as they orbited the Earth in their “chariots”. Have you not read von Daniken?. (Rumor has it that stefanthevondenierken is one of his direct descendants, and inherited much of his brainpower from him, to say nothing of his disregard for truth).
PS I have mentioned “The Sixth Extinction” by James Rollins, a Sigma Force novel centered on a cli-fi theme. The Piri map is mentioned prominently, and Charles Darwin makes a stop in Antarctica to check it out—-what he finds is so horrible that it it is suppressed and not recorded by him in his notes on the voyage of the Beagle. Anyone who enjoys Rollins and Sigma Force should read this book,
uknowispeaksense Says: ” Just direct me to your paper and we’ll advance our little chat from there”
That’s cool; but first: 1] you didn’t say that on polar caps doesn’t get colder than 75C. 2: you didn’t say that: doesn’t need the temp to go one degree above zero centigrade, for that ice to ”start” melting. 3; you avoid to calculate how much would be 71C +37C =? So that your students can see that…
Tell your students to read all my posts / they are only a dozen; to learn and bring all the good news to the world, I never use: ”can happen, may happen, could happen, if happen, I HAVE ALL the solid proofs NOW:
You are truly the gift that keeps on giving. Direct me to your peer reviewed scientific paper that demonstrates your “solid proofs” and we’ll go from there. Oh, and I have already run your…..ummmm…..hypothesis? past a few of my students. Their responses were……”Looks like a classic case of the Dinning- Kruger effect.” “Mind-numbing ignorance.” and my personal favourite “This is why they shouldn’t leave the doors to the asylum unlocked.”
They also questioned why I am wasting my time with you when you are clearly confused about very basic well- established physics. You consider yourself some sort of modern day Galileo, but here’s the thing. Galileo was using science to fight the unscientific religious establishment. You seem to be doing the opposite. Back of the envelope mathturbation doesn’t cut it in any scientific discipline and certainly not in climate science. Go and do some basic science course somewhere so that you will at least learn some basic critical thinking skills. Thanks for the links by the way. I’ve been looking for some new material to demonstrate pseudoscience and logical fallacies to my students. Good luck with the test of your life.
I still hold out the possibility that stefan is really an individual (or group) that is spoofing climate change deniers. One must know some basic physics in order to so cleverly make a completely insane mess of the science as stefan does, and must understand logic and critical thinking skills well enough to parody someone who appears to be as clueless there as stefan appears to be.
I am reminded of a website (active from ~2006-~2008 but now defunct) called “Liberals Must Die”. It was so full of the most outrageous right-wing insanities you can imagine that it was actually breath-taking. I was led to it by the complaints of “liberals” on other websites, who railed against it, calling it the most awful and hateful thing they had ever seen, etc. When I visited LMD, it was full of stefan-like rants against liberals and progressives, and had a very lively comment stream with the real right-wing crazies chipping in and the lefties fighting back as best they could.
It was very well done, and the only obvious clue that it was a spoof was the site’s masthead, which showed the iconic photo of the Tea Partier holding up the sign with “MORAN” on it. I was one of several that thought it was a spoof and so commented, but the site had developed a life of its own, with the real crazies loving it, and the enraged liberals attacking it—-nobody paid us much attention. I think that towards the end, many of the commenters were joining in the spoof and trying top each other’s insanities.
I wasn’t able to find much in the way of remains for LMD, but here’s a small sample. Does it sound like stefan?
“Liberals Must Die is a site for ONLY CHRISTIANS REPUBLICANS…”
“Now, if you want to ask the question most evil-doer defeat-o-crat liberals ask… \”What if I am a Christian but not a Republican, can I come on your internet?\”
“There is no such thing as a Christian who is not a Republican, you would have to be a fake Christian in order to not be a Republican… and God knows who is a fake Republican… and guess what is going to happen when the rapture happens??? YOU ARE GOING TO BE LEFT BEHIND!!! HAHAHAHA that is totally going to suck for you!”
Oh I’m pretty sure Stefan is a Poe. The fact he calls himself a denier is suggestive. Either way he does provide excellent fodder for my students. A big part of what I teach is scientific convention. I use climate change denial as a tool for them to develop critical thinking skills and recognise the many characteristics that we all know pseudoscience and nonscience have. Stefan provides plenty.
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dumboldguy Says: ”I still hold out the possibility that stefan is really an individual (or group)”
Hi old boy; you bring few issues, but avoid to elaborate on my real FACTS, supplementing it with ridicules = that’s not science – typical of you; therefore I’ll answer on your comment with couple if comments
I’m me, not a group b] had couple offers: to correct my post on proper English; but didn’t trust to give them the password. when on the subject, I’m looking for a secular warmist OR skeptic, with good English – to take charge and put on his own blog what I have – because I don’t like to seat at the computer, I prefer to go fishing when i have free time. Otherwise I’m very busy (need to work at old age – because the bitch cleaned me up during divorce) plus I spend time writing my book.
2] I presume that ”tea party / Republicans in US are the conservatives, and Liberals are the reds. I live now in Australia – here ”Liberals are the conservatives” and ”Republicans are the green people – because they are trying to kick out of Australia the English queen… confusing. I never get involved in politics, because they are all the same. Honest person cannot become politician.
Told you before: I grow up in communism – the politicians were constantly telling us that: ”they are protecting us from capitalism, because capitalism is very bad BUT, in the shop we didn’t have even toilet paper, always used newspaper instead – the front page of the newspapers were always going in the toilet – because on the front pages were always the politician’s faces
3] old boy, I don’t know religion, apart of what have seen in epic movies – why don’t we start to discus about every individual proof i have – i don’t know religion.
Science is: vigorous debate – stick to the subject until the truth is found; no mater from whom it comes. Silencing the truth, indoctrination is brainwashing religion, that’s what the warmist & Skeptics do. I believe that: the climate is in constant change, BUT the phony global warming is a complete lie.
Climate always changed in the past and always will / H2O controls the climate, not CO2, and is essential to do so, as proof that always was changing is: most of the genes in most of the critters are degenerated and became useless, BUT not the genes for ”adaptation and diversification”
climatic changes are and have being keeping those genes alert (you know:
use it or lose it) (from me you can only learn the truth – don’t be a bigot like that Robert the drivel) Cheers!!!
“….most of the genes in most of the critters are degenerated and became useless, BUT not the genes for ”adaptation and diversification”;
climatic changes are and have being keeping those genes alert (you know:
use it or lose it)….”
Nice touch, stefan! When one is trying to demonstrate how loony their science is, it’s always good to throw in something that smacks of Lysenkoism.
uknowispeaksense Says: ”Oh I’m pretty sure Stefan is a Poe. The fact he calls himself a denier is suggestive. Either way he does provide excellent fodder for my students”.
Hi Robert
You haven’t being on my website – I have ”wordpres” and is telling that: nobody from this post was to the post i gave to you = you can’t tell the truth… worried that your tongue might get paralyzed…
b] if students cannot recognize the real proofs that i have = they have being completely brainwashed… tragic…
2] I did go to your website – but not allowed to make few comments = it’s a proof that you are panicking from real proofs b] anyway, i read your post and am writing a chapter in my book: -” Fusion Reactors as Truck’s Engines BY prof Robert the Drivel
(if you are a professor I must the Pope of Rome… start feeling sorry for those students…)
3] you should go for real to my website and learn the questions one day you will be asked on a witness stand, under oath
THE TRUTH ALWAYS WINS ON THE END – I have the truth and the real proofs.
The tactic you use: ”because is written somewhere” doesn’t work with me! If you believe in something that is written, prove it yourself. Otherwise: – it was ”written” about virgin birth, and millions believed in it, but not me – facts Robert, facts I have enough facts, to put you in jail for good. Read those post i gave you and see
Oh, I’ve been to your website. I’ve actually have it open for a couple of days now. I’ve been having a chuckle at your Q&A page.
If you aren’t a Poe and actually believe everything you have written, then all I can say is you are way out of my league……. I’ll go now and ponder my future jail time with all my co-conspirators and Al’s figleaves while I observe Jupiter….just like Galileo.
uknowispeaksense Says: \\Oh, and I have already run your…..ummmm…..hypothesis? past a few of my students. Their responses were……”Looks like a classic case of the Dinning- Kruger effect.” “Mind-numbing ignorance.”
uknowispeaksense
ADMIT TO THE FRIENDS HERE: -”WHY ARE YOU SCARED TO LET ME MAKE few COMMENTS ON YOUR BLOG?!?!?!?!
(I have already put the real reasons that you are scared off, in my new book; but would like to hear from yourself, giving officially ”right to reply”, why; and will compare it after)
2] BE HONEST TO YOURSELF and admit that: you are crapless scared to give contact to my blog to any student – stop telling lies!!!
Robert, I don’t blame you, I blame your father, for not using a condom!…
While the loons are here talking about Cook and the NW passage, anyone want to claim the Piri map as evidence for an ice free Antarctic?
Charles, thankyou for that link. I can never get enough caps, italics, bold and all three together in one place. A Poe surely?
uknowispeaksense Says: ” anyone want to claim the Piri map as evidence for an ice free Antarctic?”
Here is some sense for you guys:
FACT #1: if is something written on paper or map; doesn’t mean is the truth, paper doesn’t object lies to be printed on it – paper can tolerate anything – reason paper is used even in the toilet.
FACT #2: on Antarctic, Arctic and northern part of Greenland the temp gets colder than -75C (103F)
FACT #3: therefore: planet to warm up by 75C is not good enough, because on zero centigrade will be still frozen – therefore: the planet needs to warm up by 71C, for all the ice to ”start” melting.
FACT #4: now in New York city gets to 35C (95F)
If you ad 71C on the top of 35C (95F): 71C + 35C = 106C (222,8F)
That will make the temp in New York city 12,8F above WATER BOILING POINT
The Greenman is telling you how hot will the polar caps will become; BUT, you ask him: –”how cold Antarctic and northern part of Greenland get NOW.
Proves my point that: polar caps were never ice free for at least 3,75 billion years – therefore: if New York gets 12F above WATER BOILING POINT- you and Al Gore will not worry about the polar ice, also, the tropics and subtropics will be 22F above water boiling point. Arithmetic is the most reliable science – calculate yourself!
71C + 37C =?
The truth always wins on the end!!!
Some excellent mathturbation there allbeit based on nonsense and logical fallacies. I’ve subsequently printed out your comment onto paper and used it to line the bottom of my birdcage.
In one of the few bits of truth in his rant, stefan states “paper doesn’t object lies to be printed on it”. That’s obvious, because paper is inanimate and has no “feelings”. If paper DID have any consciousness, it would probably object more strenuously to you printing stefan’s insane garbage on it than to 6 inches of bird poop being deposited on it. (And you are cruel to subject your birds to stefan’s rantings—-PETA would not approve).
Old boy; what I comment is ALWAYS, everything 24 carat proofs.
Gold shines even when covered by bird dropings
No, stefan, Gold does NOT shine even when covered by bird droppings. If it was covered, you couldn’t even see it, because its poop-covered surface is not reflecting any light, and we see things because of the light they reflect. In fact, all we could be sure of is that there’s a pile of your “poop”, and any “gold” that it covers exists only in your fantasies.
uknowispeaksense , if you are sure that your bird is more intelligent and objective than you = evolution has played a joke on you….
Better ask somebody more intelligent and objective than you, to explain to you about all my real proofs. What I write is all scientific; everything can be proven now – no need to wait 100y and see that you have being duped by Mann, Al and Hansen!
Sure thing buddy. Just direct me to your paper and we’ll advance our little chat from there. In the meantime, feel free to enrol in the “understanding science” module I teach at university, and learn about the concept of “proof” as it applies to science. You may learn how much of your ignorance you have put on display.
The Piri map is proof positive of an ice-free Antarctic. It contains mapping data given to humans by the ancient astronauts as they orbited the Earth in their “chariots”. Have you not read von Daniken?. (Rumor has it that stefanthevondenierken is one of his direct descendants, and inherited much of his brainpower from him, to say nothing of his disregard for truth).
PS I have mentioned “The Sixth Extinction” by James Rollins, a Sigma Force novel centered on a cli-fi theme. The Piri map is mentioned prominently, and Charles Darwin makes a stop in Antarctica to check it out—-what he finds is so horrible that it it is suppressed and not recorded by him in his notes on the voyage of the Beagle. Anyone who enjoys Rollins and Sigma Force should read this book,
uknowispeaksense Says: ” Just direct me to your paper and we’ll advance our little chat from there”
That’s cool; but first: 1] you didn’t say that on polar caps doesn’t get colder than 75C. 2: you didn’t say that: doesn’t need the temp to go one degree above zero centigrade, for that ice to ”start” melting. 3; you avoid to calculate how much would be 71C +37C =? So that your students can see that…
Tell your students to read all my posts / they are only a dozen; to learn and bring all the good news to the world, I never use: ”can happen, may happen, could happen, if happen, I HAVE ALL the solid proofs NOW:
http://globalwarmingdenier.wordpress.com/climate/
http://globalwarmingdenier.wordpress.com/2014/07/12/cooling-earth/
http://globalwarmingdenier.wordpress.com/water-vapor-h2o/
You are truly the gift that keeps on giving. Direct me to your peer reviewed scientific paper that demonstrates your “solid proofs” and we’ll go from there. Oh, and I have already run your…..ummmm…..hypothesis? past a few of my students. Their responses were……”Looks like a classic case of the Dinning- Kruger effect.” “Mind-numbing ignorance.” and my personal favourite “This is why they shouldn’t leave the doors to the asylum unlocked.”
They also questioned why I am wasting my time with you when you are clearly confused about very basic well- established physics. You consider yourself some sort of modern day Galileo, but here’s the thing. Galileo was using science to fight the unscientific religious establishment. You seem to be doing the opposite. Back of the envelope mathturbation doesn’t cut it in any scientific discipline and certainly not in climate science. Go and do some basic science course somewhere so that you will at least learn some basic critical thinking skills. Thanks for the links by the way. I’ve been looking for some new material to demonstrate pseudoscience and logical fallacies to my students. Good luck with the test of your life.
I still hold out the possibility that stefan is really an individual (or group) that is spoofing climate change deniers. One must know some basic physics in order to so cleverly make a completely insane mess of the science as stefan does, and must understand logic and critical thinking skills well enough to parody someone who appears to be as clueless there as stefan appears to be.
I am reminded of a website (active from ~2006-~2008 but now defunct) called “Liberals Must Die”. It was so full of the most outrageous right-wing insanities you can imagine that it was actually breath-taking. I was led to it by the complaints of “liberals” on other websites, who railed against it, calling it the most awful and hateful thing they had ever seen, etc. When I visited LMD, it was full of stefan-like rants against liberals and progressives, and had a very lively comment stream with the real right-wing crazies chipping in and the lefties fighting back as best they could.
It was very well done, and the only obvious clue that it was a spoof was the site’s masthead, which showed the iconic photo of the Tea Partier holding up the sign with “MORAN” on it. I was one of several that thought it was a spoof and so commented, but the site had developed a life of its own, with the real crazies loving it, and the enraged liberals attacking it—-nobody paid us much attention. I think that towards the end, many of the commenters were joining in the spoof and trying top each other’s insanities.
I wasn’t able to find much in the way of remains for LMD, but here’s a small sample. Does it sound like stefan?
“Liberals Must Die is a site for ONLY CHRISTIANS REPUBLICANS…”
“Now, if you want to ask the question most evil-doer defeat-o-crat liberals ask… \”What if I am a Christian but not a Republican, can I come on your internet?\”
“There is no such thing as a Christian who is not a Republican, you would have to be a fake Christian in order to not be a Republican… and God knows who is a fake Republican… and guess what is going to happen when the rapture happens??? YOU ARE GOING TO BE LEFT BEHIND!!! HAHAHAHA that is totally going to suck for you!”
Oh I’m pretty sure Stefan is a Poe. The fact he calls himself a denier is suggestive. Either way he does provide excellent fodder for my students. A big part of what I teach is scientific convention. I use climate change denial as a tool for them to develop critical thinking skills and recognise the many characteristics that we all know pseudoscience and nonscience have. Stefan provides plenty.
dumboldguy Says: ”I still hold out the possibility that stefan is really an individual (or group)”
Hi old boy; you bring few issues, but avoid to elaborate on my real FACTS, supplementing it with ridicules = that’s not science – typical of you; therefore I’ll answer on your comment with couple if comments
I’m me, not a group b] had couple offers: to correct my post on proper English; but didn’t trust to give them the password. when on the subject, I’m looking for a secular warmist OR skeptic, with good English – to take charge and put on his own blog what I have – because I don’t like to seat at the computer, I prefer to go fishing when i have free time. Otherwise I’m very busy (need to work at old age – because the bitch cleaned me up during divorce) plus I spend time writing my book.
2] I presume that ”tea party / Republicans in US are the conservatives, and Liberals are the reds. I live now in Australia – here ”Liberals are the conservatives” and ”Republicans are the green people – because they are trying to kick out of Australia the English queen… confusing. I never get involved in politics, because they are all the same. Honest person cannot become politician.
Told you before: I grow up in communism – the politicians were constantly telling us that: ”they are protecting us from capitalism, because capitalism is very bad BUT, in the shop we didn’t have even toilet paper, always used newspaper instead – the front page of the newspapers were always going in the toilet – because on the front pages were always the politician’s faces
3] old boy, I don’t know religion, apart of what have seen in epic movies – why don’t we start to discus about every individual proof i have – i don’t know religion.
Science is: vigorous debate – stick to the subject until the truth is found; no mater from whom it comes. Silencing the truth, indoctrination is brainwashing religion, that’s what the warmist & Skeptics do. I believe that: the climate is in constant change, BUT the phony global warming is a complete lie.
Climate always changed in the past and always will / H2O controls the climate, not CO2, and is essential to do so, as proof that always was changing is: most of the genes in most of the critters are degenerated and became useless, BUT not the genes for ”adaptation and diversification”
climatic changes are and have being keeping those genes alert (you know:
use it or lose it) (from me you can only learn the truth – don’t be a bigot like that Robert the drivel) Cheers!!!
“….most of the genes in most of the critters are degenerated and became useless, BUT not the genes for ”adaptation and diversification”;
climatic changes are and have being keeping those genes alert (you know:
use it or lose it)….”
Nice touch, stefan! When one is trying to demonstrate how loony their science is, it’s always good to throw in something that smacks of Lysenkoism.
uknowispeaksense Says: ”Oh I’m pretty sure Stefan is a Poe. The fact he calls himself a denier is suggestive. Either way he does provide excellent fodder for my students”.
Hi Robert
You haven’t being on my website – I have ”wordpres” and is telling that: nobody from this post was to the post i gave to you = you can’t tell the truth… worried that your tongue might get paralyzed…
b] if students cannot recognize the real proofs that i have = they have being completely brainwashed… tragic…
2] I did go to your website – but not allowed to make few comments = it’s a proof that you are panicking from real proofs b] anyway, i read your post and am writing a chapter in my book: -” Fusion Reactors as Truck’s Engines BY prof Robert the Drivel
(if you are a professor I must the Pope of Rome… start feeling sorry for those students…)
3] you should go for real to my website and learn the questions one day you will be asked on a witness stand, under oath
THE TRUTH ALWAYS WINS ON THE END – I have the truth and the real proofs.
The tactic you use: ”because is written somewhere” doesn’t work with me! If you believe in something that is written, prove it yourself. Otherwise: – it was ”written” about virgin birth, and millions believed in it, but not me – facts Robert, facts I have enough facts, to put you in jail for good. Read those post i gave you and see
Oh, I’ve been to your website. I’ve actually have it open for a couple of days now. I’ve been having a chuckle at your Q&A page.
If you aren’t a Poe and actually believe everything you have written, then all I can say is you are way out of my league……. I’ll go now and ponder my future jail time with all my co-conspirators and Al’s figleaves while I observe Jupiter….just like Galileo.
Peter you’ve got a live one here. Classic.
uknowispeaksense Says: \\Oh, and I have already run your…..ummmm…..hypothesis? past a few of my students. Their responses were……”Looks like a classic case of the Dinning- Kruger effect.” “Mind-numbing ignorance.”
uknowispeaksense
ADMIT TO THE FRIENDS HERE: -”WHY ARE YOU SCARED TO LET ME MAKE few COMMENTS ON YOUR BLOG?!?!?!?!
(I have already put the real reasons that you are scared off, in my new book; but would like to hear from yourself, giving officially ”right to reply”, why; and will compare it after)
2] BE HONEST TO YOURSELF and admit that: you are crapless scared to give contact to my blog to any student – stop telling lies!!!
Robert, I don’t blame you, I blame your father, for not using a condom!…